Hi Hari,
As we know, in Universe there are limited quantity (about 33mln.) of devas, then a question arises – how they do control over whole unlimited processes which are happening in the Universe? Do they have all-providing capacity to do this?
And also, for example, Surya is the Sun god, and then, is he only god of our Sun star or he is the god of all sun-like objects in Universe?
Devas
Re: Devas
I do not think that you should start this question by saying, “As we know…” Rather, we can say, “We have heard…” With this in mind, I will try to give some feedback according to my capacity.
Devas do not necessarily look like the paintings we have seen. How they “look” or how they act is related to the second part of your question about how they control. They do not act as beings in “control,” they facilitate, they coordinate, and they cooperate to maintain the universal order.
The human model of a physical being with arms and legs making things happen is not necessarily applicable in all respects here. For example, the Sun God, who you speak of, must by nature have a form compatible with the sun and all its enormous power for him to exist. That is obvious, but less obvious is how his consciousness, his intent and intelligent application of that intent facilitate supplying heat and light. Keeping the sun going is one task, yet another is knowing where the rays of the sun go and how they react with what they meet and to do this, his consciousness and awareness are linked to these rays, or rather, they ride on these waves. Vayu’s consciousness is pervading the air and Varuna’s the seas. They know their domain through the element or planet they represent, as well as the characteristic energy related to their task. Within that element they are fully empowered and competent to provide their service.
Surya, the deva of the Sun Planet, is a position, yet the specific personality of the Surya who we know through his work in our universe is different from the others who do a similar task in other locations throughout existence. Other solar systems have other Suryas.
Difficulties arise when the cooperative efforts of these devas seem to be at odds with the desires and requirements of the living beings within their domains. There are times when energetic churning is required as a natural consequence of time or a chain of events and we might blame the devas for ruining our lives. The devas generally do not engage in punishment out of their own rage, although they might rarely express rage and anger when they are really upset or have to deal with universal opposing forces. What happens on our level follows a routine schedule or after our input into the energy of our world.
The idea of “satisfying” the devas means to tune to the energy of the world and universe and compatibly engage in acts that bring about positive consequences. For example, a person who is in tune with Vayu will not pollute the air, one in tune with Varuna will not pollute the water, and so on. When in tune with “nature” in this way, everything becomes quite heavenly. Being out of tune with nature creates problems on all levels. The devas respond to the frequency of the energy projected by the residents of the universe and respond accordingly. Thus the devas, the living entities, and the elements, interact.
Devas do not necessarily look like the paintings we have seen. How they “look” or how they act is related to the second part of your question about how they control. They do not act as beings in “control,” they facilitate, they coordinate, and they cooperate to maintain the universal order.
The human model of a physical being with arms and legs making things happen is not necessarily applicable in all respects here. For example, the Sun God, who you speak of, must by nature have a form compatible with the sun and all its enormous power for him to exist. That is obvious, but less obvious is how his consciousness, his intent and intelligent application of that intent facilitate supplying heat and light. Keeping the sun going is one task, yet another is knowing where the rays of the sun go and how they react with what they meet and to do this, his consciousness and awareness are linked to these rays, or rather, they ride on these waves. Vayu’s consciousness is pervading the air and Varuna’s the seas. They know their domain through the element or planet they represent, as well as the characteristic energy related to their task. Within that element they are fully empowered and competent to provide their service.
Surya, the deva of the Sun Planet, is a position, yet the specific personality of the Surya who we know through his work in our universe is different from the others who do a similar task in other locations throughout existence. Other solar systems have other Suryas.
Difficulties arise when the cooperative efforts of these devas seem to be at odds with the desires and requirements of the living beings within their domains. There are times when energetic churning is required as a natural consequence of time or a chain of events and we might blame the devas for ruining our lives. The devas generally do not engage in punishment out of their own rage, although they might rarely express rage and anger when they are really upset or have to deal with universal opposing forces. What happens on our level follows a routine schedule or after our input into the energy of our world.
The idea of “satisfying” the devas means to tune to the energy of the world and universe and compatibly engage in acts that bring about positive consequences. For example, a person who is in tune with Vayu will not pollute the air, one in tune with Varuna will not pollute the water, and so on. When in tune with “nature” in this way, everything becomes quite heavenly. Being out of tune with nature creates problems on all levels. The devas respond to the frequency of the energy projected by the residents of the universe and respond accordingly. Thus the devas, the living entities, and the elements, interact.
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kamalamala1
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Re: Devas
I am sorry that i am interfering.
But your answer is so interesting that i cannot stop me to ask more question in this regard.
I hope that Drpta dont mind.
In this regard I have a question about devas does it mean that Devas who mentioned
In vedic scriptures Indra, Vayu, Varuna,Agni are devas for all universe and dealing with all kind
substances like let say Varuna is controlling not only water (H2O) substance but is in charge of all
liquid substances like let say liquid metan oceans on other planets( same about Vayu) and ecspesially about Agni
And also Lord Chandra is the Lord only of our moon?
Since there are thousands moons there in the unevers
Can we say that same what you said about Surya can be applied to Chandra and other Gods?
But your answer is so interesting that i cannot stop me to ask more question in this regard.
I hope that Drpta dont mind.
In this regard I have a question about devas does it mean that Devas who mentioned
In vedic scriptures Indra, Vayu, Varuna,Agni are devas for all universe and dealing with all kind
substances like let say Varuna is controlling not only water (H2O) substance but is in charge of all
liquid substances like let say liquid metan oceans on other planets( same about Vayu) and ecspesially about Agni
And also Lord Chandra is the Lord only of our moon?
Since there are thousands moons there in the unevers
Can we say that same what you said about Surya can be applied to Chandra and other Gods?
Re: Devas
Thank you Hari for your answer. But some more questions arise.
1. Can we say that “controlled” substances are the parts of god’s bodies? And what is the principal difference between human being and deva?
2. Are the laws of nature, I mean physical laws, for example law of gravitation, laws of electricity or magnetism, laws of thermodynamic, product of the will of gods, or they are work independently, just because of the properties of interacting objects? For example a magnet attracts an iron – is it because of will of Magnet god, who responsible for magnetic field or because of that magnet has magnetic field which appears because of the specific molecular structure...
3. Do all stars and galaxies in Universe have their respective gods? And who is the god of our Galaxy? Do our solar system has respective god?
4. What the hierarchy of devas is? Obviously there are some main devas, who care about basic processes and forces and many subordinate devas, who influenced by and using forces controlled by superior ones. This question has some intersection with Kamalamala’s one.
1. Can we say that “controlled” substances are the parts of god’s bodies? And what is the principal difference between human being and deva?
2. Are the laws of nature, I mean physical laws, for example law of gravitation, laws of electricity or magnetism, laws of thermodynamic, product of the will of gods, or they are work independently, just because of the properties of interacting objects? For example a magnet attracts an iron – is it because of will of Magnet god, who responsible for magnetic field or because of that magnet has magnetic field which appears because of the specific molecular structure...
3. Do all stars and galaxies in Universe have their respective gods? And who is the god of our Galaxy? Do our solar system has respective god?
4. What the hierarchy of devas is? Obviously there are some main devas, who care about basic processes and forces and many subordinate devas, who influenced by and using forces controlled by superior ones. This question has some intersection with Kamalamala’s one.
Re: Devas
We are limited in our capacity to understand the role and power of the devas. Here is an example to help clarify this. How does thought happen? Can you explain it? What is a thought process, where does it take place, and how is it created, sustained, and remembered later on? We know thought happens in the brain, but we do not know how it happens or why. Thought is a function of consciousness that simply happens. We do not feel how we think and would have a difficult time explaining the mechanisms of thought to others. Our best answer is simple -- we think. This has been stated as, "I think, therefore I am." Knowing this limitation helps us to better understand devas and their power.
Let me give a mystical example. A yogi with the capacity to fly can explain how he does it in a way that makes perfect sense to him but has little connection to us who cannot fly. If he tells us, "I step on the air and flow with the wind," we might be able to imagine this action and visualize like a scene in a movie, but we would not be able to connect to this concept in a meaningful manner. Hearing that the yogi perceives air as something solid that supports him, expands our understanding further. Someone might object, "How is the air solid? It is by nature gaseous." This is correct from our point of view, but if we stop trying to imagine air as dense the air and focus on the possibility that the yogi makes himself lighter than a feather through a mystic process, we better understand what is happening for the air does not become denser, the yogi becomes lighter. By changing his nature, the yogi defies the generally understood laws of physics. A flesh and blood 70 kg human cannot be lighter than air, but a yogi who transforms into a form lighter than a feather, can float on air. Naturally our next question is, "But how did that yogi become lighter than a feather? This is not normal." It is not normal. He does it through his highly developed mystic capacity. Although it theoretically makes sense, exactly how to use this understanding to duplicate this feat is beyond us. His power simply is extraordinary by virtue of who he is as the manifestation of his energetic consciousness
In certain circumstances and within specifically empowered individuals, their capacity to act is simply part of their nature and has no other cause than "this is who they are."
It might be easier to understand the controlling power of devas by adjusting our understanding of them. When we call them gods with a small "g" to distinguish them from the top God, we create an image of some awesome powerful person who is somehow far beyond us in the celestial realm. Although this image is correct in many respects, considering them as the CEO of a powerful service company allows us to grasp their function and consciousness better.
For example, let us call Varuna, the god of waters, as the CEO of the Universal Water Company. As CEO, he has secretaries, assistants, vice-presidents, foremen, labor managers, and many levels of workers. Above him is the board of directors. He has millions of subordinate workers who arrange things and do labor to supply his service. It is a corporate hierarchy dedicated to facilitating the requirements of life in the universe. The materials they utilize to supply this service are given them and are part of the nature of who they are. The water service personnel are watery, the air service personnel airy, and so on.
Exactly how it is done is analogous to how the yogi walks on air. To walk on air the yogi transforms into a state that allows him to float or fly. Therefore, the sun CEO or the moon CEO or the air CEO and so on, all exist within states that allow them to perform their services and like all good CEO's, to know everything that is happening within their corporation so they can regulate it and transform it as needed. We are not privy to how they exist within that state as this is not something we have seen or experienced. But we can know that they do it.
Just as our thoughts simply "are" within our minds, the devas consciousness flows within their area of service. Thought is the nature of our life, and for the deva, his awareness within his area of control is natural. It is inherent to their roles as facilitators within the universe.
Regarding the dominion of Varuna: metal is metal regardless of it being in a fluid or solid state. Water is water regardless of it being frozen in ice or boiled into gas. The same CEO is in charge of that element despite its transformation. And according to literature, that CEO is in charge of that element throughout the solar system.
I cannot answer if Chandra, the moon CEO, is in charge of each moon on each planet within the vast galaxy or solar system we inhabit. I do not know.
Let me give a mystical example. A yogi with the capacity to fly can explain how he does it in a way that makes perfect sense to him but has little connection to us who cannot fly. If he tells us, "I step on the air and flow with the wind," we might be able to imagine this action and visualize like a scene in a movie, but we would not be able to connect to this concept in a meaningful manner. Hearing that the yogi perceives air as something solid that supports him, expands our understanding further. Someone might object, "How is the air solid? It is by nature gaseous." This is correct from our point of view, but if we stop trying to imagine air as dense the air and focus on the possibility that the yogi makes himself lighter than a feather through a mystic process, we better understand what is happening for the air does not become denser, the yogi becomes lighter. By changing his nature, the yogi defies the generally understood laws of physics. A flesh and blood 70 kg human cannot be lighter than air, but a yogi who transforms into a form lighter than a feather, can float on air. Naturally our next question is, "But how did that yogi become lighter than a feather? This is not normal." It is not normal. He does it through his highly developed mystic capacity. Although it theoretically makes sense, exactly how to use this understanding to duplicate this feat is beyond us. His power simply is extraordinary by virtue of who he is as the manifestation of his energetic consciousness
In certain circumstances and within specifically empowered individuals, their capacity to act is simply part of their nature and has no other cause than "this is who they are."
It might be easier to understand the controlling power of devas by adjusting our understanding of them. When we call them gods with a small "g" to distinguish them from the top God, we create an image of some awesome powerful person who is somehow far beyond us in the celestial realm. Although this image is correct in many respects, considering them as the CEO of a powerful service company allows us to grasp their function and consciousness better.
For example, let us call Varuna, the god of waters, as the CEO of the Universal Water Company. As CEO, he has secretaries, assistants, vice-presidents, foremen, labor managers, and many levels of workers. Above him is the board of directors. He has millions of subordinate workers who arrange things and do labor to supply his service. It is a corporate hierarchy dedicated to facilitating the requirements of life in the universe. The materials they utilize to supply this service are given them and are part of the nature of who they are. The water service personnel are watery, the air service personnel airy, and so on.
Exactly how it is done is analogous to how the yogi walks on air. To walk on air the yogi transforms into a state that allows him to float or fly. Therefore, the sun CEO or the moon CEO or the air CEO and so on, all exist within states that allow them to perform their services and like all good CEO's, to know everything that is happening within their corporation so they can regulate it and transform it as needed. We are not privy to how they exist within that state as this is not something we have seen or experienced. But we can know that they do it.
Just as our thoughts simply "are" within our minds, the devas consciousness flows within their area of service. Thought is the nature of our life, and for the deva, his awareness within his area of control is natural. It is inherent to their roles as facilitators within the universe.
Regarding the dominion of Varuna: metal is metal regardless of it being in a fluid or solid state. Water is water regardless of it being frozen in ice or boiled into gas. The same CEO is in charge of that element despite its transformation. And according to literature, that CEO is in charge of that element throughout the solar system.
I cannot answer if Chandra, the moon CEO, is in charge of each moon on each planet within the vast galaxy or solar system we inhabit. I do not know.
Re: Devas
To answer Drpta’s questions:
1) Not every deva controls a substance, so to answer that question properly one needs to discuss each deva. We cannot do that. The devas and their assistants have bodies which are perfectly suited to perform their service. So the deva of the Sun needs a body that is suited to such fiery heat and light, which implies a body of fire or light. The same principle can be applied to other devas who are in charge of some element or substance. Devas who are not associated with a substance like that will have a body perfectly suited to dealing with whatever it is they do. The nature of their form is less significant than their powerful consciousness running throughout all aspects of their area of service, as I previously answered. Although this is not actually very different from what we do, for we also manage larger projects and project our consciousness within them, the scale of what the devas do is greater than what we do and their power and capacity is greater. Their life span is far greater. In general, they are far greater than humans in all respects.
2) All the physical laws that fundamentally support and hold together this universe are inherent in the creation and are essential to it. The devas use the forces described by these principles to facilitate. They are not known as creators, unless we are speaking of Brahma, because they render service by using the facilities given them to perform their services. However, they are so powerful that they can bend these laws when they wish to. The laws of nature are provided by nature to create the arena within which we all live. Nature is independent of the need to be created by or supported by the devas.
3) The problem of trying to translate the scriptural description of the universe and the location of the devas is related to defining the limits of a universe as given in these scriptures. I presume they call a galaxy a universe and thus the group of devas relevant to us exist within our galaxy. It is also possible that our group of devas is related to only our solar system, but I cannot say for sure. I usually only answer from experience, but I thought your questions interesting (you are an astronomer of sorts) and I am enjoying thinking about this.
4) I think I addressed the hierarchy in my previous answer.
1) Not every deva controls a substance, so to answer that question properly one needs to discuss each deva. We cannot do that. The devas and their assistants have bodies which are perfectly suited to perform their service. So the deva of the Sun needs a body that is suited to such fiery heat and light, which implies a body of fire or light. The same principle can be applied to other devas who are in charge of some element or substance. Devas who are not associated with a substance like that will have a body perfectly suited to dealing with whatever it is they do. The nature of their form is less significant than their powerful consciousness running throughout all aspects of their area of service, as I previously answered. Although this is not actually very different from what we do, for we also manage larger projects and project our consciousness within them, the scale of what the devas do is greater than what we do and their power and capacity is greater. Their life span is far greater. In general, they are far greater than humans in all respects.
2) All the physical laws that fundamentally support and hold together this universe are inherent in the creation and are essential to it. The devas use the forces described by these principles to facilitate. They are not known as creators, unless we are speaking of Brahma, because they render service by using the facilities given them to perform their services. However, they are so powerful that they can bend these laws when they wish to. The laws of nature are provided by nature to create the arena within which we all live. Nature is independent of the need to be created by or supported by the devas.
3) The problem of trying to translate the scriptural description of the universe and the location of the devas is related to defining the limits of a universe as given in these scriptures. I presume they call a galaxy a universe and thus the group of devas relevant to us exist within our galaxy. It is also possible that our group of devas is related to only our solar system, but I cannot say for sure. I usually only answer from experience, but I thought your questions interesting (you are an astronomer of sorts) and I am enjoying thinking about this.
4) I think I addressed the hierarchy in my previous answer.
Re: Devas
You wrote that “satisfying” the devas means to tune to the energy of the world and universe and compatibly engage in acts that bring about positive consequences. Does it mean that this is enough to leave in harmony with nature (like, for example, animals do, and as we can see, getting everything what they need) and by this satisfy devas, and then they supply all what is necessary to our good life? So what for we need the knowledge about devas and warship them then? Aren’t all things happening even without our knowledge about devas? What a favor can be derived from this knowledge by people who live in harmony with nature and the modern urban ones, who live absolutely disharmoniously?
Re: Devas
Living in harmony with nature, with the nature spirits, with the creatures of this world, and with yourself, certainly "satisfies" the devas who facilitate our existence as it means that you are not longer working against them (!!!), you are respecting them, you are respecting what they have given you, and you are working with it in the best possible fashion. That you give thanks for what you have been given and are ready to render service to others in this world as a grateful reciprocation for all that you have received, is certainly the best attitude to have. You do not need to worship the devas in some separated artificial context to get more than what you have already been given naturally, but knowing about them is extremely valuable. When you get a gift from the devas, you should naturally be curious and finding out more about them not only acknowledges their presence but it expands your capacity to connect to them and thus the energy of existence that is all around you. This is the yoga of awareness of the present that is so essential to spiritual consciousness and development. If you are aware of the present, you are aware of all the personalities and energies that are part of that present, support and maintain the environment within which we exist, and to whom we owe a great debt.
Obviously, living like this is vastly superior to living in ignorance for such awareness is goodness itself and the source of all positive evolution in life. Can one think of a greater favor than this?
Obviously, living like this is vastly superior to living in ignorance for such awareness is goodness itself and the source of all positive evolution in life. Can one think of a greater favor than this?
Re: Devas
You said “The laws of nature are provided by nature to create the arena within which we all live. Nature is independent of the need to be created by or supported by the devas”. A question arises – what is the nature? Is it just a set of dull material elements (gross energy) that are interacting with each other by the universal laws, which exist as part and parcel of it, or is it living, spiritualized, substance? I do not know how it is in English, but in Russian we often say Mother Nature, and nature in Russian is “she”.
Re: Devas
Could you, please, explain more elaborately about that yoga of awareness of the present which you have mentioned above. As we live in social environment we usually have to plan our future deeds and analyze our past. So, in common life we more live in future and past then in present. How can I plan my future and be in the state of awareness of present simultaneously? And does one really need such planning if one attained the awareness of present? It looks like to live in modern society, being in state of this yoga, is impossible or very difficult. Does it mean that practitioners of such highest yoga should live outside of society?
Re: Devas
When I said that nature is independent I was speaking of nature as the arrangement of the divine. If you speak of Brahma as the creator of the structure within the universe, you still have to account for all the materials and laws that are the basis of what he creates, the raw materials. These are supplied by the supreme. This structure of materials and the laws affecting these materials are what I referred to as nature and the devas task is to work within that nature. Nature is not dull, it is alive and vibrant.
As I have given hundreds of lectures specifically relating to the yoga of the present and my book discusses it as well, I will not discuss this point again here. But we do not need to divorce ourselves from society to live in the present. The most effective and most aware people are those who live entirely in the present and see therefore the real nature of reality and all those who live within it. They are best able to relate to individuals around them and can interact on an extremely aware and empathetic level. Indeed, the practice of this yoga is difficult specifically because it is done in this world with all its distractions and challenges!
As I have given hundreds of lectures specifically relating to the yoga of the present and my book discusses it as well, I will not discuss this point again here. But we do not need to divorce ourselves from society to live in the present. The most effective and most aware people are those who live entirely in the present and see therefore the real nature of reality and all those who live within it. They are best able to relate to individuals around them and can interact on an extremely aware and empathetic level. Indeed, the practice of this yoga is difficult specifically because it is done in this world with all its distractions and challenges!
Re: Devas
In one scientific article of Rg Veda I found interesting classification that there are gods (devas), demigods and demons (asuras). Gads are Adityas, Marutas and Vasus and few mystical beings like Ahirbhudnya. Demigods are Ribhus and Angirasas, who got their part in sacrifice. Demons are Daityas, Danavas, Gandharvas and Apsaras. So the name demigod now sounds very natural for ordinary being, which, by their merits have got their part of sacrifice, or became worshiped like god.
Now, I also have some questions.
1. Who are Indra, Soma and Mitra, which are ones of main characters in vedas? Of course I know that Indra is a king of gods, but since he is very popular in vedas I like to know something more about him. I think he is very significant person. But I have no ideas who are Mitra and Soma. Unless that the name Mitra means Friend and that Soma appears as a plant or juice of that plant and has some connection with moon. And could you say about Ashvini kumaras too, since I think they can help us in various affairs.
2. Also I would like to ask you about Mohinimurti. Who is She? Is She manifestation of woman aspect of God? And I have heard that She have a son from Shiva whose name is Ayyappan, who is very popular in South India. Could you clarify this moment?
Now, I also have some questions.
1. Who are Indra, Soma and Mitra, which are ones of main characters in vedas? Of course I know that Indra is a king of gods, but since he is very popular in vedas I like to know something more about him. I think he is very significant person. But I have no ideas who are Mitra and Soma. Unless that the name Mitra means Friend and that Soma appears as a plant or juice of that plant and has some connection with moon. And could you say about Ashvini kumaras too, since I think they can help us in various affairs.
2. Also I would like to ask you about Mohinimurti. Who is She? Is She manifestation of woman aspect of God? And I have heard that She have a son from Shiva whose name is Ayyappan, who is very popular in South India. Could you clarify this moment?
Re: Devas
I red so often Hari speaking about how the scripures wherein sll this persons you mentioned. Drpta are described are not seen anymore as in some way relevant for him therefore I ask myself why you consider it important to get some clarification in this regard by Hari. On what basis I wonder do you expect him to know something more about this beings you mentioned?
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