Diffrent preaching styles

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Diffrent preaching styles

Post by dasosmin »

Is it possibel that a a liberated soul can be forced to act in a way so that others are forced to question his behavior and thus feel inspired to preach so that them selfes has easier time to digest the filosofi.
Or it might just be so others are abel to feel on a similary level and thus abel to speak normally and openly with their thoughts and problems wich they otherwice wouldnt feel comfortable to express.

In other words that soul is forced out Of deep LOoving connection to Gauranga to act to arrange question and thus let thoose who are unable to listen humbly, themself express the filosofie hopefully correctly so They can understand actually what them selfes should do??

In otherwords by acting seemingly improper others judgemental understanding make them se their own lacking in their own behaivior Since They themself pointing out faults themselfes are having in their own life style..Similary as JadaBarath was so Humble that He acted seemingly as just a Sudra etc But when pushed to Preach By the supersoul.Krishna; Just nectar emminated from HIs lips.

Idont know if I was abel to put the proper words in my vision But something is there atleast.

Wish the Dust of Guru And Gauranga and there followers allways be my hearts source of inspiration and power of Life
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Post by Hari »

The subject of your post is "Different Preaching Styles." I dislike the term, "preaching." It implies to me that you know what is best for others and you are going to give it to them. It justifies giving what you have learned whether others want it or not, regardless if it is factually good for them for it is the truth that all should accept. One comes to believe that the only reason the meat-eating fornicators (and even the vegetarian fornicators) do not accept is their ignorance and sinfulness, but were they to simply hear the preaching submissively, they will see the truth, the light, and the way and thus be eternally benefited.

It is so one way, unidirectional, and insensitive. The unquestioned assumptions behind this universally accepted axiomatic concept are staggering.

Now you might object, as I am sure many will, that there is a right way to ‘preach’ and a wrong way. There are more clever ways of presenting the ‘absolute truth’ to those who do not yet see it (the infidels, the heathens, the non-chosen ones). Yet, regardless of the sophistication of the technique used to deliver a fundamentalist ideal, it has problems.

I would rather see discussions between people as an act of sharing realizations and experiences with the goal of informing others of what we are (a presentation of ourselves) or when appropriate, to assist them in their endeavors to evolve spiritually. Any other motivation scares me. It scares many others too.

Some people preach because they feel it is the best path towards their own salvation. If it is the order of their guru, preaching is a means to follow the guru’s orders and thus gain points towards liberation. They also feel good when they do it, for it diverts their attention away from their nagging minds and incessant desires. In some cases talking at people with this motive can cause greater harm than good when they express themselves in a way that distresses those they preach to.

Some preach because they feel it is the best thing for others. These are the most determined and hardest to deal with.

Some like to present what they know in a take it or leave it manner without being attached to the result. These are the easiest to be around and usually more successful. They attract the intelligent class since those they speak to feel less threatened and know they can always walk away without being damaged by the exchange.

This is my opinion, take it or leave it as you like. I do not wish to preach to you about preaching. I do not wish to convince you of anything. I know that it is anyway impossible to convince you of this. You do not have to read anything I write and certainly do not have to believe it. I am just giving my opinion, nothing else. As I continue my opinion in this text, you will notice it becomes more and more controversial, perhaps even blasphemous. As you are forbidden to hear blasphemy and you should jump into the river with your clothes on when it appears, get a towel ready.

Now to address your post, wow, here we are talking about liberated souls! I have not heard this statement in a long time and seeing it again in print is a real eye-opening experience. Liberated souls indeed! Liberated from what, I wonder? Oh, I know all the statements about detachment from material desires and this material bondage and so on, but these things do not relate to me any more as these statements are part of the dis-integrative philosophy that I disagree with. For those who are integrationists, glorifying those who you declare to be liberated is incompatible, but that is another topic I have addressed in a broadcast.

Let me rephrase your point without all the jargon.

Sometimes we change. When we change, those around us who felt comfortable with us before our change suddenly feel different. That which they depended on is no longer available and a very intense uncertainty and insecurity envelops their consciousness. There is a little gremlin that sits on our shoulders and constantly reminds us to never change and to always keep all things the same. This ideal of consistency makes us feel safe and secure. However, the nature of this world and all life within it is change for that is the nature of the spirit. The spirit is always progressing, moment by moment, faster or slower according to our capacity and opportunity and as our cumulative growth suggests continuous adjustment to our new circumstances. This is what we call evolution and it is change in its fundamental essence.

When someone dares to do something out of the ordinary, those who are stuck in mediocrity, that is, those who follow the group, follow the externally manifested historical or cultural lead of others before them. It is unfortunate that they do not learn the lesson demonstrated by the previous leader’s spirit or adventurous nature that caused them to do something unique by breaking out of the box and seeing things in a different way. After all, this is usually the feature that attracted us to them in the first place. They cannot deal with major transformations and label such unconventional acts in terms that, although usually have no connection with the truth, are stated in ways the affected followers can quickly grasp onto and embrace as reasonable and acceptable explanations. The idea that out of the box transformations are only a product of deviant insanity or excessive lust creates a social pressure within the group to keep everyone at the lowest possible denominator. It is the mentality of the pack. We need to herd together all who are within the group to protect the group that is made of all who are in it. The quantity of people in the group is important for it directly relates to the income the group lives off. Keeping the group secure and safe from the influence of change and protected from influences that challenge the group’s existence is essential. How can anything that threatens their continuity or influence be allowed or condoned?

Change is not wanted, neither is it emphasized. It is institutionally condemned as speculative, against all traditions or philosophical truths, a deviation, dangerous, apa-sampradaya, along with a host of other pejorative phrases and labels that fix in the minds of those still within the organization a deep and significant fear of anything that even suggests fundamental transformation. This is natural for such organizations and I do not wish to address the weakness inherent in such a mentality or the quality of the persons such organizations foster for those who accept this deserve and desire their situations. Those who break free from such restrictions by changing their lives either do so out of acts of courage and fearlessness or in such guilt and shame that they never recover. One can only lament about the damage done to these poor souls in the former category. They are good, sensitive souls who simply did not fit into the mold they were required to accept. They should have rather felt good about themselves and how they chose to live their lives and not condemned themselves for not being good enough to ‘make’ it in the ‘spiritual big leagues.’ One has to live as one can live, as one must live and as one is, rather than try to be something else that simply does not work. If it did work one would not feel inclined to change it. Therefore they should not lament that they had to change; rather, they should accept their change as beneficial and feel good about having done it before it was too late.

Humility is another misused word. If we speak about offering a humble obeisance to another person yet as soon as there is a cause for conflict all humility goes out the window and we are ready to fight, we are simply repeating a stale and archaic phrase that means nothing to anyone. If you fall on the floor before another person, does that make you humble? Is it really an expression of humility? I would rather be of service in a meaningful manner.

Let’s look at it this way, isn’t there value in simply understanding what you are and living sincerely according to this awareness? Why must one push oneself to a lower position? Don’t we already have enough problems with our self-esteem? Don’t most devotees dislike themselves enough already since they deeply believe they are fallen, sinful, cannot follow properly, and have evil, dark, and dangerous thoughts and desires that must never be manifested? Don’t most live in an atmosphere where any revelation of their inner world would bring condemnation and judgment upon them? God forbid if someone in a big position were to honestly share their inner world with others! So we find the lowest possible point of group relation and work with it.

I find it interesting that realized souls are instructed to hide their experiences as a manifestation of humility. Perhaps this might not have been a problem in former times, but when dealing with modern institutions with a well developed hierarchy, intricate conceptions are established to protect the structure. For example, those who are in spiritual leadership positions must actually be advanced (otherwise how could they get in such positions in the first place), and when they deny their advanced state out of humility their denial must be disregarded by the faithful as mere words. This paradox is accepted as axiomatic. How would they react if the faithful were to believe their statements of humility? It would breakdown the authority structure. Why then maintain this impractical thought?

Goodness. Sorry I rambled about so. Maybe this was not very humble of me? I am truly sorry and beg your forgiveness and fall at your feet in humble obeisance. Not really, I am being sarcastic. The first rule of posting is to never use sarcasm in texts as it does not work in written form. I meant what I said. That does not make it right; neither must it be the truth or even true. It is what I think, nothing more.
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Post by dasosmin »

So life is all about just what we think??It was called mental platform when my first days in meeting souls who approached Bhakti Yoga

So all the preaching to attemting souls in ISKCON was wrong in the 1970-80ths???

I dont think the aunts whos ear was bitten of was completly right since I think educating a child and incurrige good behaivioris proper and not just support the person no matter what behaivior somebodie hassince it will not get the right signal for wanting of development in ones good character etc.

I aggree completly to preach to people in a way the are abel to digest=personal empatic communication, But isnt it soo that Life Preaches to Us sometimes thrue experiences That are very deep and take long time to digest and accept in a creative way.So obviusly is Krishna Allowing it to take place since not even a blade of Grass can move without the sanction of the Lord??

Isnt is so also that to "preach to" someone can maybe bee the bestway even to provoke an arrogant soul to think about its own arrogance towards life.?Speak the language style themselfes use????I remember many tuff given instructions I coudnt swallow for a long time But when I finally could take in its positive way I saw the actually concern and proper directions ofthoose words and It was actully like a life saving gaurd biting a crazy victim uncouncius just to safe the persons life.Seeing how thoose experinces actually saved my spirituel fighting spirit How can I reject its power???To much of that "good" Stuff might make one developed atleast temporarly averson But Even the Gopies feel kind of "averson" to Krishna sometimes so even that experiences must not allways be that bad afterall or???If I can somehow accept that Our best friend Krishna is in full controll all the time I can allways see how He helps one to develop just more tolerance and deepen ones faith thrue all experiences and be reminded How the only goal is just to remember Krishna and never Forget Him .So this attraction to remeber Krishna comes allways most strong when UNEXPECTED CHANGES TAKE place So therefor everything is GOD from that point of vue.

Since Im not so sensitiv to the supersoul and thus not can present any special intelligens I couldnt even grasp Your Grace points regarding sarcasm etc etc.I guess its like trying by words insult a Donkey.

All glories to satatam Kirtayanto mam
Wish the Dust of Guru And Gauranga and there followers allways be my hearts source of inspiration and power of Life
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Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:27 am

I think??

Post by dasosmin »

Are we thinking???Are we creating intelligens???As I have learned from the reseach of life, the most clear and logical explination is that the voice in out heart, the super soul, is the giver of intelligens and memory and forgetfullness.Therefore the way "we think" is just a result of our desires to be fullfilled by the help of supersoul who also guide us according to Our karma when we still are under the moodes.

So rather to just think I understood one should analyse why one has been given that particular intelligens; In other words: WHAT DESIRE IS in my heart has provocated Super Soul TO PROVIDE that certain type of intelligens.

So to just also express there is only relatives truth,my and your and somebodie elses opinion, are trying reject the possibiility of the concept of absolut truth BUT unless one actually go the dept of How its possible that there can even exist relative truth one will clearly see there cannot exist even relative truths without the base of absolut truth.

So since there exist relative truths one should rather build up ones lifes vision based upon aboslut facts about life and thus mold,cultivate ones desires to obtain the absolut best life style.

I f there exist no absolut truth then i dont even exist maybe, But I exist and every bodie else communicating here exist, BUT what our absolut natur are at the moment maybe not at all be clear for us all, but alteast some for sure, to higher or less degree.

So if one gonne build up are reaa life filofosie one has to base it upon absolut facts and thus one can establish the true absolut optimal meaning of life and how to develop ones life to that glories goal.

So bascily if its a fact there is existing relative truthts then it must be absolut truth it exist other wice its just maybe existing relative truths.
So we no there exist absout relative truth and there for the question is what is the essens of absolut true facts of the absolut vison of reality.

So in any are there exists allways somebodie better than others Whom one can learn from and also get incurrigement from etc So there is ofcourse souls whom developed more in their eternal original personalty and thoose souls can ofcourse help hus by knoledge of own realisation help us see the diffrent paths one might go or end up within and expoose the reason why one come to a dead end etc by pointing out where in the thought process the oftrack started and upon what desire its caused by wich forced the super soul to provide the intelligens that give us the intelligens to be convicned to act in an(from the path of pefect acting)improper way.Ofcourse the pillar of success is allways there so hte enxt time one will hopefully rememebr ones thoughts mistake and not accept such intelligens and thus one go forward by trial and error with proper retrospective develope more and more beutyful desires.

I guess I ramble to much.So Humble is to performe the action the Lord wants oneto perform However unpleasant it might be or however infamous it might be in the eyes of commen peoples narrowed minded eyes vission.To get the common peoples recognition or praise is not the liberated souls desire But to get His dear Lords recognition is all there exist in their heart.So therefor is it for common person imposssoble to understand sometimes the action of such a rare and wonderfull personality
who thus never find faults in other for His own particulary situation But just tolerate and keeps focused to be fully engage all His energies and capacity that The LORD Has Provided Him
Wish the Dust of Guru And Gauranga and there followers allways be my hearts source of inspiration and power of Life
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