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What is uncertainty? Why is it a basic human condition of life? What role does it have?

pamu wrote:What is uncertainty? Why is it a basic human condition of life? What role does it have?

Pamu! Pamu! Welcome! Did you get a computer? Good for you!

Most likely you have already researched all the available psychological and esoteric texts which elaborately and eruditely define uncertainty, so I will not answer from those points of view. As I am an expert in the feeling of being uncertain if what I am saying or doing is ultimately the best for me and others, I will discuss it from my own particular slant on life. Unfortunately, I am not certain if it is correct, that I can express it properly, or that it is relevant to you. I certainly know that there is no certainty that others will like what I write and I definitely fear that others will take my words and misunderstand them. Being misunderstood is simply the worst thing for me. Being disliked for what I am is far superior to being liked for what I am not. But that is not the question here. I am not sure if I should leave these little comments in this text. Decisions, decisions, I do not like making decisions because they might be wrong and I might kick myself later on. Alas, what is a doubter to do?

Well, doubts are not everything and courage is required when you create a forum where you are expected to come up with answers to these tough questions. I know that you will see these comments as my attempt to be of service and accept them in the way they are given without the deluded expectation that my opinion is "right" or even interesting. Regardless, I will reply using the term in the way you expressed it and not in its usage as a condition where future events, investments, or situations are uncertain and therefore risky.

It seems that many feel an enormous need to be certain about things and this leads them to develop great conviction in political ideologies, causes of all kinds, certain fundamentalist religions, or to follow some charismatic personalities. Being uncertain is seen as weakness and therefore attempts are made to overcome the deficient state by embracing something that is so 'obviously true!' We all have experience with this.

I like uncertainty. It keeps me honest. When I am certain I become blinded and lose perspective. I do not examine all aspects of a situation and become complacent. Sure, if I am certain that a course of action will be beneficial, I will go for it, but getting to that conviction requires diving into the ocean of uncertainty which stimulates research, questioning, self-examination, and discussion. Doubt deepens our thought processes. Doubt and uncertainty are similar and both are symptoms of intelligence. Only the totally dull and ignorant are without doubt, but I do not recall meeting anyone so qualified! Sometimes I see the more one doubts themselves and their capacity, the more they present themselves as being without doubt and absolutely certain. Such persons make me worried and uncertain as to their sensitivity to my needs as an individual.

There is a seductive comfort in the absoluteness of certainty. It prepares a soft and comfortable bed and sings a lullaby that guides the descent into uneventful sleep. Typically, one wakes up from that certain slumber with a shock as the alarm rattles our brains back into the natural state of uncertainty when the time is right.

It is obvious that uncertainty protects the frail consciousness from being victimized by shadows presenting themselves as light. Uncertainty powers the quest for truth and alerts us to possible pitfalls in what we have accepted as relevant in our lives or what is beneficial for others. Uncertainty powers our development, encourages the growth of intellectual muscle, and facilitates the attempt to act optimally.

Uncertainty does not protect us from doing something that we might later decide to be incorrect. It does not protect us from doing something that others may think is wrong, neither would it protect us from causing harm to others even when we do not wish to do so. Uncertainty is definitely not a peaceful place of rest and recreation, for it demands attention and hard, strenuous work. Uncertainty is not a heavenly experience for it is diametrically opposed to the celestial high of absolute conviction. In other words, it is not a drug, it is a medicine.

Absolutemento I have my own computer. For long that seemed as impossible as leaving a certain unnamed religious organisation, but, here we are, hovering in the cyberspace, happy as a man can be!
I was glad to find out that you too enjoy the spicy realm of uncertainty.
It was a good answer you gave. Medicine, not a drug, I liked that. This theme of uncertainty is an integral part of my upcoming book (this November). Do you find a connection between the following items: uncertainty, existential anxiety and fruitive mentality? My conclusion was that they are all intimately connected. Would you like to elaborate on that?

pamu wrote:Do you find a connection between the following items: uncertainty, existential anxiety and fruitive mentality? My conclusion was that they are all intimately connected. Would you like to elaborate on that?

Certainly there is a connection between uncertainty and existential anxiety, but only when one has existential anxiety, otherwise there would not be a connection! One could experience uncertainty without being in anxiety about it. I doubt that one could feel existential anxiety without being deep within the grip of uncertainty. It is part of the definition of existential anxiety that one feels the heat of uncertainty. I am often blessed with existential crisis. When it is minor it manifests as uneasiness and a catalyst for seeking out underlying causes. When it is major it often results in laying in bed in deep contemplation which later fuels investigative inquiry. A major crisis is not always resolved but the minor ones almost always are. Sometimes I think a major crisis attack is the culmination of an overload of uncertainty.

But fruitive mentality? I suppose there are other ways to look at it, but let me take your question to be, "Why would someone have existential crisis or be concerned with uncertainty if he had no desire for fruitive future results?" This is an interesting question. The implications of it are enormous.

The easy response would be, "He would not." But then again, even a person free from the desire for gain would still be concerned with his or her overall evolution and advancement and would be eager to develop themselves in a non-materialistic manner.

Some might think, "If I think I am working for the sake of God and have no fruitive desires, then I would feel totally certain and without any doubt. This would free me from the effects of any existential conflicts." Such a statement is true, yet it can direct one into actions that lack foresighted sensitivity to others in the world. Those who accept such ideals can claim that their understanding of things answers all questions and is therefore absolutely correct. In such an absolute world-view, all manner of actions are possible that normally should be questioned by a reasoning mind fueled by doubt, but due to the conviction of the absolutist are not. One can look at history and see hundreds of examples of injustices being performed by religions using this world-view as justification of whatever they do.

I don't feel like going deeper into this as it would lead me into areas which are more mental than relevant to me right now. In my own life at this moment I do not feel very fruitive and I certainly am not passionately working to create something. Simultaneously, I feel a nagging existential uncertainty about my role of service in this world -- not because I do not know what it is, for I do, but because I am uncertain of how to fulfill it. I find myself in existential crisis when I try to balance what I am and how I wish to manifest it with what my service to others could be. I don't wish to elaborate on this in this text since this was not the question, but I feel that this example demonstrates how the concept of fruitive mentality does not fit perfectly together with uncertainty and existential anxiety. Uncertainty and existential anxiety fit together just fine.

Not so fast! You have to go deeper into this...please. What if fruitive mentality is there just to "protect" us from existential anxiety and uncertainty? This certainly seems to be the case in this world and it does not matter whether your convictions and the fruitive desires and goals thereafter are of material or of spiritual kind. To me it looks like the fruitive mentality is like an alarm system that goes on immediately as soon as some existential anxiety or uncertainty shows up in the horizon of our consciousness. So in this way at least I think they fit or work together. Existential anxiety and uncertainty are not very popular, to say the least, but maybe they should? Like you said, they keep us honest.
If you agree that uncertainty keeps us honest and helps us to not fall in the seductive comfort of absolute certainty, then you must also be a regular visitor in the not so comfortable chambers of existential anxiety. How do you define existential anxiety and how do you personally cope with that?
ps. I love this forum

OK, it is hard to avoid you. You are too smart and also too persistent.

You raised a really interesting point! It is indeed a possibility, more probable than we might wish to admit, that goal oriented activity, or even any mind occupying activity can function as a drug to dull existential anxiety. Some might deal with such uncertainty by working hard to create a new project, doing this or that, building empires, or just making money. Others might travel all over the world constantly running from themselves and their feelings. Others might absorb themselves in alcohol, drugs, sex, gambling, politics, studies, expanding and increasing power and positions, getting sick, or any of the million of diversions presently available in the world. Yes, it is definitely a possibility that ‘fruitive’ actions, as you label them, are even better than TV at dulling our internal awareness so we may avoid dealing with existential anxiety.

We have all done this in our lives at one point or another. Those who are doing it now would benefit by stopping for a moment, reflecting on what they are running from, and turning to face this demon and vanquish it with acceptance. There is nothing better than acceptance to destroy denial.

How do I deal with it? My existential anxiety runs along this line: How can I be of service to people without compromising myself? You can place this anxiety in all realms of my life and correlate it with different groups of people, specifically, my family, my former students and associates, and people I might know or might come to know. This existential crisis is a regular visitor to my awareness for I am definitely in touch with my internal rumblings. Dealing with it is has not been easy since those who I could be of assistance to are not living where I live. However, with the creation of these video conferencing tools and this kind of discussion forum, I find this anxiety has seriously abated.

Some topics make me think harder and longer than others. Some of these questions or some of the needs that others express make me think for days. This is compatible with my personality. I am a researcher of the truth and I do not mind digging, excavating, and examining any artifact or concept to find it.

Dear Hari!
Please, accept my humble obeisons. I have a question to You like "an expert in the feeling of being uncertain". How do You think, were in that stage such great personalities like Vritrasura?

In this regard I found the following on the Internet, which I would like to post here just as an information: http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archi ... /0198.html

"Chitraketu was a Gandharva who was cursed by Narada to be born as an asura and he was born as Vrtrasura.

To give you the history of Vrtrasura.

Once Devaguru Brihaspati was insulted by Indra and hence he left Amaravati. Indra went to Brahma and asked him for advice. Brahma advised him that one should never be without a Guru and hence advised Indra to approach Twasta's son (I forgot the name here. It probably was Viwaswan). The wife of Twasta bwlonged to the Asura clan and hence Viwaswan was caught between two worlds. But he agreed to be the Devaguru

Interestingly he had three heads and while with one head he would do yagnas for the benefit of the Devas, the other head would pray for the benefit of Asuras. But Indra got know of this and he cut of Viwaswan's head. The heads turned into birds and flew away.

Twasta was very angry on the death of his son and hence he offered a yagna and from the yagna came Vrtrasura.

Vrtrasura defeated Indra and Indra ran to the Lord for protection. The Lord told Indra that Vrtrasura could not be killed by any normal weapon, since he was begotten on the penance of Twasta, and told him to get the bones of Dadichi (a sage) to make a weapon.

Dadichi graciously gave his bones to Indra and Viswakarma (the Divine Architect) made the Vajra from this. Indra used the Vajra to kill Vrtrasura,

Vrtrasura though an asura, was a great devotee of the Lord and he always prayed for deliverance. Even when defeat and death stared him in the face, Vrtrasura urged Indra to strike him down so that he may reach the Lotus Feet of the Lord. A staunch devotee, Vrtrasura, is glorified as one of the Great Devotees of the Lord."