It is a good idea!

[Nanda-grama]

I like this idea of creating of a community very much! It seems very actually for all us now. We who lives in big towns know that we need 2 things-pure air and good intercourse with friend. Only one of them is insufficiently! For example, I live in a village in 70kilometers from Moscow, there is wonderful real forest near my house , it is very peacefully and quietly around. But I can to associate with my friends only by internet or telephone. Even my husband can come to me once in the week because he works in Moscow! But when I come to Moscow and enjoy to associate with close people I feel that I suffocate, that noise and energy in Moscow are intolerable for me. I think that if this project can realize itself it will be super! It seems to me, it should be not nearer than 60 km from a big town (it is 1hour of drive in a car) because otherwise ecology is same as in the town. May be at first it will be as summer cottage for somebody, anybody who has free work as I(I am an artist)can live there constantly. But even if we will rarelly gather together it will be great! Because it is very important who is my neigbour:an incomprehensible man or my friend. But if Hari will come to there it quite will be super!

[Nanda-grama]

This idea is in the air. It seems to me, it already exists in subtle reality, it is part of our future. And all that I do now-I try to understand what is it and how does it concern me. I think it isn't something that can limit us . We were in closed society and we know very good it's advantages and defects. We are adult and normal people, who can limit me or compel me to do something that I don't want? I think what it may be for us who lives in Moscow.- In S-Peterburg there is known spiritual center, when there is nice atmosphere, wonderful Dities, but there isn't such center in Moscow. I think very good about ISSCON, but in it's temples I feel myself not very comfortablely. Of course, I have my Dities in my home... But it is absolutely differently. The problem in all spiritual centers is a lack of personal living area for people. And advantage of a settlement is in big pieces of land and in inviolability of personal life. I think it will not be community in common sense of this word, where all people economicly depend each on other. All we have own profession and economical independence, I think we can have other points of contact besides joint growing of potatoes. and then, all we are townsmans. On the other hand it is great to have own ecologicly pure food, and we can to hire professional people for it or can use clever technologies which don't demand big physical labour.

[kamalamala1]

I agree with Nanda Gram totaly.
And can add that as far as crises develop the criminal situation will become more and more active.
And also people will become more agitated.
In such situations it is much pleasant to be amongst people who have same Historical background and are more or less wellknown to each other and some are even friends.
Sects, mean ISCON ,is not the way, they are realy narrow minded.
And more then that they are trying to catch even God in there sect wath to speak about people.
So by mercy of all Divine Beeings let start and iam sure the result will be realy amaising.

[harsi]

I can only discuss this issue as an outsider. It seems to me according to what I could read above that all of you would like to live your life in a kind of village community. It is indeed so that in a village on the land the people know each other better than in the town. I remember well the time I was living in Romania, I was a child than and was living in a village of around 3000 villagers. It was so that everyone knew each other by name and the families helped each other working the land when needed. Our village in the Bistriţa-Năsăud county of Transylvania had also two herdsman who took care of the cows of the villagers during the day and at the end of the day they delivered them again to the villagers. Some people had many goats or sheeps or horses and a dog in every courtyard who protected the house from criminals.

But who would like to live such a simple village life today? I guess no one. Today we are used to live more modern lifes with a Mercedes car parked in our garage, or a Lada or a Volga car. Also the structure of society changed a lot. Today we don't really have to take care so much about our safety from criminals. In every town and village there is a police station, with well organized and well traind policemen, at least in Germany it is so. Also in state affairs we have a word to say, if someone whom we voted in the last state ellections does'nt satisfy us we can vote for someone else. In your country the majority voted for Putin and Medvedjev the last time. If they dont do their work well you can vote for someone else as your statesman or government, whom you consider would be better able to do his job.

Or if some of you have enough money or some posibilities to get a credit from a bank you could build your houses near a village together. Here in Germany it is so that many villages opend parts of their land for expanding their village, and many people from the towns are building there their houses. In Romania I could see also how many villages near the towns have now new areas of houses where many people from the towns build their houses. I guess in Russia its now the same, since you are living also in more democratic times with expanding economic opportunities and possibilities.

I personally have some problem with the usage of the word "sect" when it comes to define a society of people. Narow minded people are everywhere that does not mean necesarily that a whole society of people must be or think like that. I was for many years a "member" of that certain society. It was interesting although ISKCON was and is legally organized as a religious association or society I was never aplying officially for membership there, nor did I received any kind of membership paper while being active and "collecting donations" there, I was receiving for example when applying for membership in our local Nuremberg Philosophical Society. In this way ISKCON's management and relation with its "members" was and still is somehow complitely ilegal and outdated. As something not belonging to our present more democratic time in which we live.

[Nanda-grama]

Indeed I can hardly believe that here in Russia there will be serious disorders because of economic crisis. Russian people are very patient and we survived in terrible crisis of 1990-94 and 98years. In some sense we constantly live in the condition of some crisis. Our petrol always was more expensive then in this countries which bought our oil. Most cheap m2 of dwelling area in Moscow costs $2000, but middle salary of people is $1500, and now a leader of Moscow joyfully tells that during this crisis this prise will not fall! It is very difficultly to shock Russian people by something, we are experts to survive in most bad conditions and have good sense of humor. Also we are compeled to be "mistics" in order to live well. So, now Moscow is most calm place in the world.But if here there will be disorders... Russian rebellion is an awful thing. Greeks will rest. Therefore it will be better if in such time we will be together.

[harsi]

Interesting news, Thank you Nanda-grama for this informations. Social changes were and still are a great part of history. And of the present as well. And in such situations of social insecuritiesl it is good to feel secure and safe while being together with others who share the same problems and ideals we may share. Its all a question of how to organize such a society of people. We are never living in a social vacuum rather everyone of us is part of a bigger society of people headed by a certain government elected by us. So if we like it or not we are the state. Everyone of us is a more or less active part of the state, thats the understanding behind a more democratically organized state administration. We can rebel against it but thats a fact in this more democratic times we are living today.

I am not sharing the understanding of certain people who consider that we should or must keep ourself somehow aloof from the state in which we may happen to live, since we are somehow "better citizens" (Vaishnavas, devotees of Krishna, spiritualists or whatever). Fact is we are legal citizens of the state, and as such we should take part in the legal affairs and the social order of the state in which we live. Otherwise other people will do it and decide for us, if we like it or not.

When I decided back in 1985 to associate with the "devotees of Krishna" and their "Society", the mood therein was that we must somehow take our future in our own hands since the state in which we live will soon get in trouble and fail miserably due to the accumulated "bad karma" of the majority of the citizens (sometimes disparagingly called Karmis) therein. The Communists, meaning the former Soviet Union and its allies will soon overrun us with their troops, like Attila and the Huns were invading ones parts of Europe. So as "members" of "..." we must take precautions for our own safety and that of "our society of devotees."

In a story which circulated in this "our society" as something which supposed to have happened before the time I went there, some "devotees" years ago, went even so far to buy illegally weapons to be used for "the safety of the devotees," in the imagined future times of social turmoil and insecurity. On the German farm near Passau was also build a concrete shelter, well hided within an agricultural building and cow-house with around ten cows and a few bulls I was taking care with another man for a few years while I was living and "serving Krishna in devotional service" there. For some "devotees" the idea with the weapons was to be considered to far-out so they were secretly buried in the ground somewhere, avoiding thus a serious legal problem with the local state authorities. And in fact everything changed later on in a, for many of us, completely unimagined way. All of a sudden the Berlin Wall opened and the German Unification became reality, without that anyone got hurt in any way by the so much feared "Soviet troops" and the "hordes" of their "Communistic allies".

[kamalamala1]

Dear Harshi
it seem to me that we are living in different reality.
Now is realy different time.Global warming and economic crises just in the begining let see wath will come out in few years.
Wath is going on now nevr was in history.
To be optimist is good even towards the sects,wich are by there propeganda for my point of vew can make people more far from GOD then bring them closer,and more then that can stop the personal gowth of individual. in many cases.
Sects explotaiting not only people in the name of Gog service but also trying to explotate Godfor ther material benefit,i think you realy dont know how much cheating going on in the sects if you want i can tell you many real storyes..
To be in the assosiation with responsible independent people with good habits and same values.is much much better.and much better in the critical times live with them .

[harsi]

It seems to me that we are living in different reality. Now is realy different time. Global warming and economic crises just in the begining let see what will come out in a few years. What is going on now never was in history.

You are right Kamalamala we are living now a life which is definitally different from the time and reality we were living before. Or at least it should be like that. History has sometimes the strange habit to repeat itself with all the good and bad what may have happend therein. We became also a few years older and hopefully somehow wiser too.

Regarding the economic crises we may experience today, I was listening yeasterday a commentary on the German TV, where it was mentioned that the difference with the similar economic crises of the Great Depression of the '1930is is that in the '1930is the various governments of the world aggravated the crises even more since they stopped spending their money because of great fear to loose it, thus the various economies of the world collapsed completelly and millions of people lost their jobs. Many banks colapsed without being protected by their governments, and from one day to the other people lost everything. The inflation went wild and many people died because of hunger or comited suicide becoming frustrated with loosing all their wealth.

Today the governments of the world learnd their lesson and are investing billions of euros or dollars in so called "Stimulus Packages" for their local economies to help them overcome the crises. In this way one can also learn somehow from the historical events for the betterment of us all and the societies we may happen to live in. The banks are protected by the government from going under in various states of Europe and the USA, where depositors are insured when a bank fails – up to a limit of $250,000, thus protecting the people from losing all their savings on the banks. America learnd also its lesson from allowing the big Investment bank Lehman Brothers to go bankrupt dragging thus all its finantial system and that of many other states worldwide in a deep crises. Some US finantial institutions became nationalized, something unheared of before in the "Motherland of Capitalism". Germany's government made also a law last week which would allow the nationalization of banks which could creat a risk for Germanys financial system if they would go bancrupt.

Regarding Global Warming I would say that we can look somehow more optimistic in the future since America, who's former government always oposed the worldwide community in this regard, has now a new president who would like to take the right steps toward stopping Americas industry from blowing so much C02 in the air. I guess somehow he may also be forced by various circumstances to do so. Just read in the news what happens nowadays to the so proud American auto industry like GM and Chrysler who are just a few stepps away from going under. Unfortunally they may drag with them also some other car companies like the German Opel and the Swedish Saab who are owned by General Motors (GM). The New York Times writes today on its Website: "Mr. Obama challenged Congress to pass a bill to cap emissions of the heat-trapping gases that are warming the planet and use $15 billion a year of the revenues from the program to pay for renewable sources of energy."

So you are right with saying that in critical economic times it is good "to be in the association with responsible independent people" who hopefully also share with us some spiritual values or at least some good habits which may help them to occupy a political role where they are able of decreasing social inequalities and improve the social and economic conditions for the people within their societies.