Harimedia Forum

new book available for free download:

http://liberatedyogi.tripod.com

What is this, a script for a movie? One could term it as such in my opinion, very entertaining..."halavah is a sweet as common in asia as doughnuts for breakfast is in the west." Maybe you would like to write something to inform us what is this all about. I would recomend to view also the following movie about another true story, where everyone is asking himself why such a thing could happen, what is the deeper reason behind it.
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1809260612/info

Jeez....someone has way too much time on their hands, to write that cacaphony of verbage....

I have a headache after a half a paragraph.

Hello Garuda Pandit I am so happy to have you within our association. Your open-mindet and unbiased comments are always welcome and much appreciated. I allways wandered what could be the motivation behind some peoples dwelling just upon the negativ side of life and the negativitiy of the past, whatever it may be. Should it not be more advantageous for oneself and ones well being and also to come to terms with ones negative experiences of the past to develope a new way to look at the present and future. What is your opinion to this?

Hello harsi! Thanks for your complimentary words, and I'm happy to be in your association, as well. I'm in agreement with you about the issue of dwelling on the negativity of the past--it's useless. I prefer not filling my head up with stuff like "liberatedyogi" posted as an e-book. Maybe some of it is true, all that child abuse stuff was unimaginable and occurred due to the lack of checks and balances, as Hari pointed out somewhere recently. The powerful hand of the law of cause and effect will no doubt reach out and grab those abusers.

I have digested those lessons of the past, and come to my own conclusions. Certainly I could never again give away all of my power (God given power) again by joining an organization such as ISKCON. With all such endeavors, I am very cautious and sensitive to any screwball energy. I hope we can all sort things out and find all answers we seek.

GPandit wrote:... all that child abuse stuff was unimaginable and occurred due to the lack of checks and balances, as Hari pointed out somewhere recently. The powerful hand of the law of cause and effect will no doubt reach out and grab those abusers.

It is indeed unimaginable what some people have to endure in their life. Like that what the following story shows of an occurence which happened a few days ago near Vienna. An unbelievable but true story of a child which was kidnapped and held captive for eight years and which could escape just recently from the hands of her captor. The perpetrator, after becoming aware that the child which grow up by now into a young lady of eighteen years was not anymore under his exclusive control, killed himself by jumping in front of a train. What could be the psychological reasons of people who are behaving like that? It seems that men with somehow similar inclinations were mixing also among those in Iskcon.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060825/ts ... 0825123128
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/austria_missing_girl

Slides: http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/ ... schakampus

Video and coverage: "Psychiatrist Max Friedrich speculated that Natascha Kampusch was allowed on a longer leash because her captor had less interest in her as a woman than as an easily controllable child."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/ ... age2.shtml
http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8 ... 20kampusch

I wonder, are any of us shocked and apalled any more? I really feel that our spiritual, or innate innocence has been destroyed by simply living in the world. We no longer react in a surprised way when we hear of a priest or a so-called holy person who has committed some immoral hellish act. Why these people in ISKCON did what they did with child abuse--I have my own theory or theories. Chanting japa and Deity worship is obviously not enough to raise a person from their compulsions and demons. Those guys who did that--they didn't train themselves hard enough--too much luxury. If Kirtanananda was out there digging post holes all day with the rest of the grunts, he'd be too tired to chase kids around.

I don't mean to make light of that situation, and I know that my theory is simplistic and unrefined. But....it has worked for many centuries, it's called BALANCE. There is a Chinese saying: "You need good health to make great deeds". Keep denying the body, keep referring to it as a lump of ignorance and keep feeding negative messages and see what happens. But now we are all free from those demons and we can make our own choices. I have a lot more to say about it, but I have to get ready for my day.

GPandit wrote: But now we are all free...

You sad it so straightforward and to the point that it is not easy for me to add something more to this issue. Indeed we are now all free to examine our situation in this world and still there is something which keeps one cought in a way of life and in an understanding which is not so easy to overcome. How did you overcame this obstacles? It reminds me a little bit of what I was reading in this article recently about this girl which was captive for so many years and still has problems to overcome her emotional binding or connection with her past situation.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2006/ ... 11323.html

Harsi I'm not clear on what you mean, can you be more specific? Which obstacles are you referring to? If you can describe more clearly, I will be able to answer. thanks.

Of course I should explain a little better what I wanted to say. I feel that what can hinder one a little bit to find ones way in ones earned or new gaind freedom are the impressions and experiences of the past and the way one was used or accepted to think and explain everything, and align ones life acordingly too. I hope I choused this time the right words.

Okay, I think I follow you. Are you referring to your time in ISKCON, and the brain-washing that happens to people in such groups? I'm certainly no expert on the subject although I was a member of that group for a few years. From my own experience, I can tell you this. After being out of that organization for many years, I finally went for some therapy. I saw a psycologist, and it was one of the best things I've ever done for my own growth. Actually it turned out that most of my obstacles were put into place way before my ISKCON experience--no real surprise.

As for the present, I don't put a lot of stress on myself when it comes to my spiritual path. Sometimes I enjoy meditating and sometimes I enjoy saying a mantra, but presently I don't identify with any particular religious group or order. That's what I like about harimedia, the sharing without judgement. I hope this helps you a little....

You understood me very well and I can see that being in your company one can examine very nicely all what happend in the past. You sad it right I meant my time of being directly involved in ISKCON and although I would not use this word "brain washing" since I am not sure it describes the situation properly of what happened in the company of the "devotees of Krishna" in the "Haribol Movement" I know you did not meant it with this negativ touch as used by some people in describing this phenomenon.

You sea I did not lost my sense of humour yet. As the present Pope Benedikt said recently in an interview I saw in the german TV after being asked if he likes jokes and what he would say to people who are making jokes about things related to his church and so on, he answered in an surprising maner for many there that although he has problems to memorize some jokes he likes when people speak humouresly also about him, it helps him to not take everything and himself so seriously. He is visiting Germany on the 11 September and stays a few days. Not far from where I am living is the village Marktl am Inn, his birthplace, where he will come first to visit the church he was babtized than he will speak in Munich to the people there. He is a interesting personality, I was reading ones before he became Pope and was called Josef Ratzinger one of his many books "Introduction to Christianity" and was surprised how detached from the issue he was describing the christian belief, like a scholar. Of course at the time he wrote it in 1969 he was professor of theology before becoming bishop in Munich.

Now I know for the ears of his devoted followers in the Catholic Church the words he sad in the TV interview are interpreted just in the sence that he did not really meant it the way he sad it they would just show his greatness and humbleness and all that 'jazz you may also know. I really like this word which I heard the first time being used in that sence by you. After all he as the 'representative of Christ' on Earth and the 'link to God' for those who believe and are devoted to him, he must take himself very very seriously, after all what he says is 'coming directly from the Almighty God' and is 'law' for the 'fallen' believer or?
I hope you understand and make the conection...

So yes we used to feel secure in the sence that we were thinking that by living the life of someone else which in many cases did not fit to our own needs and desires, we whould 'get there'... or reach that form of existence or realization we used to 'sea' or 'believe' others would have it and worshiping them therefore for bringing us also one day 'there... Actually we were allways just living with a kind of expectation for a kind of miracle which should happen one day in the future through the 'mercy' of someone we supposed to 'worship' and 'serve'.

Interestingly enough and that is something which I found out lately people understood it in different ways how this would happen, or what this words would mean, I guess everyone according to his own desire and personality structure.

I remember well the time when 'our spiritual master' decidet somehow one day a few years ago to go on 'vacation' in order to recover a little bit from his desease and physical exhaustion, and I hope Hari is reading this also with a litle smile on his lips, I like to describe it like that. So I just came back from Romania from visiting the people in the center I foundet there, I did that often during the ´90s, now also sometimes when I travel by on a vacation to my house in Romania and heard all this stories about him and so on from others in Germany and mostly in COM the than discussion forum for those in ISKCON and thought well it is the life of him, whatever he does with his life is OK with me why should it be otherwise? I like, love and respect him as a person and the way he can explain and let me know the spiritual knowledge and the realizations I want to gain by following his advises and the knowledge he may deliver to me. But to my surprise many of those who I thought would have the same understanding as that of mine and conection to him seemd to view the whole situation diferently.

Everywhere there was lamentation in regard to him, well you know now he gave up this and that and he has a conection to a woman and so on.. you may know the history. So I thought well, I am also maried what has my sexlife to do with with what I want to gain out of contemplaiting or examining and aplying the spiritual knowledge and the realization I my gain by following the words I may hear from him and coming also to some spiritual mystical experiences sometimes myself by following his advises. But no, many saw it in another way they sad well everything is ruined we wont go anywhere we wont reach that 'place' and wont come to that realization' since he 'cannot deliver' us there to the Supreme Lord Krsna. He is now this and that...

So what this people did in order to fill up their gap of insecurity in this spiritual matter they searched out another one who may deliver them somehow to the destination of their dreams...
One of my friend from the ISKCON days who is living now near Munich who was also for some time temple president of the Nrsimha temple where I joind and doing my spiritual servive to Krsna, was calling me a few years ago and invited me to visit him on a certain day, his new guru would stay for two days at his house on his visit to Europa, if I would also like to come to attain one evening program of his. So I went also since I am a very curious kind of person, and I saw a nice Vaisnava in his 90s already who gave a speach at that evening after chanting some melodious bajans. It was one from the Gaudyia Math and interestingly for me his whole lecture contained nice stories about Krsna, Caitanya and others.

The surprise came later to me when I was asking my friend what he thought about his new guide to the Supreme. He told me you know I choused him because he is an authentic guru and since he is already so old I can foresee that he will not 'fall down' and thus he was leting me know that he thus was sure that 'he will get there' since he has chosen the 'right one.' Of course he sad it in another kind of way but I like to say it like this.

That was a great surprise for me which opend my eyes in many ways in regard to how some people understood spiritual growth or 'reaching the Supreme destination.

So in this way what I want to say by this is that in many cases it dependet on us how we interpreted in our mind the information we may have received from diferent sources being in that close conection with other likemindet people, or who we thought would be like mindet people. What experiences did you have in that conection?

One of the big growth steps for me was to able to clearly say :"ISKCON brain-washed me...." In many ways, it is true. Imagine an 18 year old who wants nothing to do with his mother, father, sisters, etc. My grandfather who I loved very much got very ill and I did not go to see him before he passed from this world. Many people have stories like this. In fact, the ISKCON of old was like that. Is that not brainwashing a youth to be "unattached"? That's not spirituality, it's a bunch of BS. So I don't pull any punches when speaking about the ISKCON of old. The post-1977 ISKCON, I know very little about. See, I have been out of that loop for 30 years!!!!

Naturally I have several friends who stayed in the program for much longer than me, and I heard things from them. I guess this discussion belongs in the "good old days" section, to some degree, but we are only talking here about general things. Do you mind if I ramble a bit?

I don't think it matters who was giving these initiations out. In fact, there are many choices for those who wish to follow the Gaudiya tradition. If I were to decide one day that I needed to have a guru I'd probably seek out someone called Srila Narayana Maharaja. He seems to have hundreds of followers, many who are ex-ISKCON. I do personally know a couple of people who are quite dedicated and have great things to say about him. Those people seem very cool, they have a sense of humor and it does not feel like a heavy judgemental scene to me. But, I don't want to join any organization or institution, so it's not my path right now.

You seem to be in a different situation since it sounds like Hari was once your guru. I'd like to say, just forget all about that and treat him like a regular guy, a person. But it's not for me to know or say. I don't want to intrude into anyone's business, especially a somewhat complicated situation as that. But, if it were possible (and acceptable to Hari), I'll bet everyone would be able to breathe and sigh of relief and just go forward from there. Please feel free to tell me to back off if I'm stepping on anyone's toes....

......to be continued.......

Your friend who believes that he chose the right guru, he also believes that it is guaranteed that he will "get there". Many people had great gurus, I wonder if that means that they all got "there"? My answer to that is, don't buy into other people's dogma or fear-based philosophy. Don't believe that he has the bona fide guru and he's saved, while you are floating aimlessly in the ocean of......whatever. There's another way to look at this thing. Maybe your guru did you a big favor, essentially telling you to find your own way. Maybe saved you years of struggle that you may have put into an organization that was not actually raising people's consciousness.....what a boon! I'm stating my opinion, it is based on my own travels and experiences, it's just my opinion. I think you are on the right track when you say that you have not lost your sense of humor. Did you ever watch some video of the Dalai Lama? Great sense of humor, a genuinely happy person. Seemingly he is a master of the smiling energy that is used in many spiritual traditions. It looks like this: