Your Existence Is Based On The Act Of Living At Every Moment
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:15 pm
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A lecture by Hari broadcasted live on Zoom on 1.10.2021
Watch and listen to at: https://youtu.be/_B5M5J0S_x4
"Live right here, right now, in this moment! This moment never dies, this moment is never born, this moment is ever existing and there is nothing but this moment - and that is eternity."
"The real thing is this right now, right here this moment, this is life. This is life for you, this is life for the demigods, this is life for Krishna."
"The purpose of life is to live. We don't need any other purpose than that." "Your existence is based on the act of living at every moment."
Time: 2:16
Thank you all for coming. I know it's very hot over there, (in Russia) unusually hot. But just be thankful you don't live in Kuwait. It was 70 degrees yesterday. I saw a picture, car fenders were melting, the fenders of a car, the plastic ones they were just melting.
I actually had something that, I think, would be interesting to talk about. And the reason I discovered it was that, you know, I every now and then I read the news. And there was this scholar (it was actually on the radio) and the scholar was talking about the mythologies, that are created within the stories, we share on social media, and other mechanisms that we have today. And it was in the context of the concept of political correctness, which has become a very big thing nowadays. And he was explaining, how the role of social media and how we are interacting with each other and how we are speaking, is creating a story.
And he said, that these stories can be understood in terms of myths. That a myth is not something that doesn't exist, it's (rather) a story explaining something. And he explained that that was a very important distinction, because sometimes people discount something: "That's just a myth." So when we say: "That's just a myth", the implication when you say it like that, is, that it doesn't exist it's just some kind of phantasmagoria. But he said, that something is a myth, does not mean, it does not exist. It definitely exists, it exists as a story that at one point in time was very relevant to the people who created it. And that these myths are very much related to the culture and time within which they were born.
And I thought that was very significant. For example right now we all have like a collective consciousness and people are so upset with what other people say. And it becomes such a big deal and there's so much anger and so much discussion. And within this discussion and in these exchanges there are implications, (such) as if this is right (and) that is wrong, you can say this but you can't say that, you are ignorant and I am wise.
So there are all these implications within the stories, that are being told by each of us. Now I must admit, I've shared my dislike of social media. Because after all why should I care, what you ate for breakfast? Why should I care, that you're smiling with your friends over there? Why should I care, you think about this or that? But what is actually happening - because this person reframed the way I think about it - is, that each person is telling their story. In other words, this my life, this is my story, this is, who I am.
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That's very important. That is really, really, really important. Yesterday Kamala told me about an experience she had at her work. You know, everybody, that she works with, they're on probation. Which means, that they have been convicted of some crime. The judge has placed them on probation, meaning, they must go to the therapy, that is offered at this place, they must go to the education there. They must perform certain actions, to get off of probation, so they can enter (integrate) into society again. And because this is part of the Department of Justice, certain mentalities (rules of conduct) were carried over (were adopted) as in (like a) discipline (disciplinary measure). You do, what you're told, you don't talk back, you follow the regime, the regiment, and so on.
So Kamala was looking in the class and seeing, that this one girl was sleeping basically through the class, she just was totally disconnected (from what was going on there). So she managed, to get her, to come into the office. And what she did, was, she said: "Listen, tell me about yourself. I want to know about yourself. I want to know, what you like, I want to know you, what it is, that you are, who you are." Now I'm compressing a lot of hours of effort, because this is way more difficult than you think. But this was the basic idea.
So this girl started talking, you know, one sentence or one little thing. And so then Kamala said: "Oh really? That's very interesting." And then she (the girl) said (continued with) something else. And then it became a dialogue, where the girl was speaking and Kamala was listening and appreciating. And the more this girl talked and the more she saw, she was being appreciated, for who she was, she changed entirely. There's not one person on this planet - my God, that's even true for horses, or for dogs or for cats - who does not appreciate, being listened to and being appreciated for who they are.
Some people they just talk all the time and they're trying, to get other people's attention, so that they would listen to them (and) appreciate them. This is one of the things, they do. And other people just close up entirely, because they think, nobody cares, nobody listens. But within we all have the same motive. We want to be heard, we want to be appreciated, we want to be listened to. And one of the most important things is to understand, that somebody cares.
So, as I grow older - it's a process, of entering into a mood - my mood is, to really listen. I don't need to be with a specific, certain kind of person. I try, to apply the same methodology to anybody. Which is to see, there's a person in front of me, my role is, to listen and to as best I can appreciate them.
But sometimes we say: "I can't do that with this person, because this person is bad because of this, this, this and that." Now, it may be true, they did this, this, this and that or they think this, this and that, but that's not the point. Who am I? That is the point. Is it my role, to judge and condemn, or is it my role, to listen and be involved, in what's happening right now between me and this person? Now, I'm not saying (and) I'm not trying to be like - I don't know - completely idealistic here. Meaning, you should go out and just, you know, try to convert the world with your love, by listening to everybody.
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Time 19:59
But if I find myself in front of this person, it's in my interest to be acting in a way, which is also in their interest. So, what is my interest? Again we come to the point of, well, who am I? Which is a question, one asks continuously. I don't mean the boring "Who am I? I'm a spirit soul, blah blah blah." I don't mean that. I mean, who am I right now?
Let's talk about the myth. That's the end of one chapter, what I just said before. Now let's talk about the myth, because I'd like to go back to the basics again. Each of us are embracing a story and this story is a combination of everything, that we have accepted throughout our many, many lives. The most important part of our story is that, which we experience to such a degree, that it has become an integral part of our conscious awareness. And religion, spirituality, all of this, that we have learned, is very much a part of our story.
And this is true for every single person, who has awareness and experience of such a tradition. Everybody has their story, that's developed from their upbringing, from the culture, within which they grew, from all that, they learned and all their knowledge, all the knowledge they have attained. But mostly from the experiences they've had.
Now, what makes our experiences the powerful events they are, is, that while we are in them, our awareness, is very highly tuned. This is true for all experiences. But the ones that become life-changing, are those, done with complete and full awareness and connection.
Like I used to go surfing. I know, that's not something, that I talk about often, but (I) used to be a surfer, yeah. So you're on the wave with the board and you got to really pay attention. I mean, you really have to be aware, of what you're doing, otherwise blub, blub, blub, you go all over the place and the board comes and cracks you on the head. Or being a fireman and having to be, you know, number one hose-man. (That) means, you're going in first, (and) everybody's throwing water on you and you're shooting (extinguishing) a fire. You really have to be aware, (and be) really focused, and that experience is very deeply ingrained in you.
Or you are in a kirtan with really very incredible beats and very nice synchronicity between all the people and the tone and you're just uplifted in that experience and you're fully aware at that time. Or you're connected to the deities and you're just completely feeling their embrace and reciprocating that with that awareness of that experience. A powerful experience is generally connected with that awareness, that focus, that connection.
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So similarly the most significant things that make you who you are, are connected to these most powerful experiences. So the story, that we live within, is an atmosphere, that we wish to live our lives within the basis of that story. And when that story corresponds to our experiences, then it is very relevant, it is very real. And when that story does not correspond, we get out of sync, we get out of whack, we get somehow or another... things are not working (somehow).
So each and every religious culture throughout history is born within a cultural reality, the reality, of what it was like at that time. It was created within a story, which was relevant to everybody. It is not necessarily so, that the story is the basis of all things in existence. And neither does that matter. Because regardless, how the story of the spiritual culture was created or how it grew or how it was nourished, there are certain elements within each of them, that are far more important.
I mean if God plays a flute or doesn't play a flute, is not really the most essential ingredient here. Have you heard the flute? Have you seen him do it? So if you haven't experienced this, you are embracing a story. So that means, you heard something or you read something, and you embraced it, as your story or the story you wish to create.
Now I'm not saying, there's right or wrong in any of this. I'm just trying to chart out, what's actually happening. Because the story is very much related to the cultural circumstances, the historical circumstances at that time. But that is neither here nor there in this discussion. Because within any story, within any spiritual atmosphere that is created, there's the essence of these experiences, which are far more important to each of us. And so when we discuss these and then look back on the story again, it will help us, understand this better.
There are certain existential, fundamental ingredients to our experience. We usually speak of it, in terms of things being eternal. That's used in all religions, all spiritual traditions - the everlastingness of it and the knowledge of it all as opposed to ignorance. And the way, in which we integrate the self within the environment and experience it in a very joyful way. Indeed this is exactly how we speak about Krishna, sat cit ananda vigraha.
So this is very much part of that life. And the purpose of life is to live. We don't need any other purpose than that. We don't need to create empires, we don't need to create websites, we don't need to create new recipes, we don't need to create a crochet blanket. (Maha asks: "What is crochet?") Hari answers: You know, you make a blanket or you sew cloth. Because after a while, you die, all of those things just merge to (with) the dust of all things.
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Do you think, that God would create you with such an idea, that your purpose is, to do or create something? Sure, you can do things, sure, you can create things, but that's not your purpose. Your existence is based on the act of living at every moment.
So don't keep creating these plans and hanker (further) for this and that, and don't keep lamenting about, what you did in the past and all of that! Live right here, right now, in this moment! This moment never dies, this moment is never born, this moment is ever existing and there is nothing but this moment - and that is eternity. Eternity, that weird word, which seems to be a big distance between the way back there and the way over there. But the real thing is this right now, right here this moment, this is life. This is life for you, this is life for the demigods, this is life for Krishna. Right here, right now.
Now, this is essential, this is the essential experience because it only can take place now. So if you wish to have a story, the story has to happen now. So the entirety of spiritual life, wherever you may have it, however you may talk about it, is obtained right now. So you can live right now in darkness and ignorance, you can live right now in awareness. If you are aware of the now, of you within the now - this is it right here - you're aware, this is the essence.
Now you may say, knowledge is more important, you have to learn things. If you know, Krishna plays the flute, is the 'now' better? Are you more aware? Are you closer to self? Are you closer to God? What if Krishna is not playing the flute that day? The idea of knowledge as a thing in and of itself, that somehow serves you, maybe, sure. But the person, who is served (by, with, that knowledge), is right here, right now, in full awareness. I'm aware, my throat is getting a little this (dry), (Hari puts his hand to his throat) so I'm aware, (that I'm) drinking this water. Well, it temporarily helps.
Time 42:55
The knowledge served my capacity to exchange in awareness and present. Now, how does that lead to bliss? Well, if I just lead my life absorbed in all of these facts and I'm reading all these stories or histories and I'm continually discussing all this stuff, in and of itself this is not creating bliss. What actually helps us is the story.
So let's talk about, how the story is told. Sukadeva Gosvami, when he spoke the Tenth Canto of the Srimad-Bhagavatam, did so with such an incredible, beyond anybody's understanding usage of Sanskrit poetry. With allegory and - how do you call it? - the meter, the rhyme, the meter, the tempo, the way, in which it was metaphorically explained, with such beautiful terms, it just created such a beautiful mood and feeling.
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But that poetry is only available to really high-class Sanskritists, who can actually read it and comprehend, what was just said. Because part of telling a story is the way in which, you tell it. You have to somehow or another - because words don't just cut it - they have to be said in such a way, that they grab the audience. For the story to work, has to have a plot, has to have a series of characters, has to have a very dynamic way in which it unfolds.
So telling the story is very important. It's not just some imagery, it has to be told in a way, which grabs you. Or that's really hard, when you have to take it from this ancient language, which is not spoken, and translate it into a language, that is spoken. That is really hard. And then it gets even harder, when you do a translation of a translation. For knowledge, that comes from even these incredible stories, is incomplete.
So we have to absorb the mood, we have to absorb the awareness of these experiences and taste them for ourselves. And that's what, you know, I've kinda been trying, to do in our relationships. But it's up to each of us, we are the authors of our destiny.
Sometimes I feel like a fraud. (Maha asks: Fraud means?) Hari answers: You know, I feel, like I'm cheating everybody. I mean, who am I, to tell you, how to live? I mean, it all boils down to your own awareness, your own experience, your own connection. It really has very little to do with me. But I try anyway. That shows you, how stupid I am. (Hari laughs) Or blind idealism, as if I could do something, that would really be useful. And sometimes you even say, "Hey that's really useful." And I go: "Really?"
But actually, if it's useful, it's you who are expanding your awareness, it's you who are expanding your experience. And somehow or another you end up being grateful to me. But it's not me, it's you. Now, I know that sounds very casual of me, very blasé. Like, you know: "Oh, it's not very important what we're doing here." But I don't feel like that. I come here with great sincerity. But I know full well, each and everyone of you has extraordinary capacities.
And one day you're going to get on that 'surfboard at the top of a really nice curling wave' and you're going to say: "Yes, that's it." And then you're going to seek that out. But then you're going to get frustrated, because it's not a common thing. But still you seek it out and that's good. And then we get together and then we talk about it or then we share that desire together. And that's good, that's very good. (Hari smiles) And therefore (that's why) we do this, to come together and share that really wonderful experience, that is our essence. Okay, I think, I said enough.
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Time: 56:08
Hari: Here's a very interesting comment. I'll read it and Maha, you can translate it. The person who wrote me, said: "I am the greatest skeptic, but those Srimad Bhagavatam stories are wonderful. Literal, non-literal, maybe it does not matter."
Hari: Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean for sure. You know, what Prabhupada did, I'm always in awe of what he did. I mean, it was really a massive action he did by translating. You got to understand he's a native Bengali speaker, English is a second language (for him). So he's taking Sanskrit and (is) going (translating it) into a secondary language for him, English. So what he did was, he read the story and tried to reproduce the story for us. There's a difference between just translating the words and telling a story. And it's amazing how he told the story.
So there's two ways in which a story is told. One of them, like I said before, is through the incredible usage of the words and the language and descriptions, and the other is through the plot and the imagery and the way, it sounds to you. So we may not have access to the language and all of the beauty of it, but we definitely have access to the stories, and that is very inspiring. And the stories are fantastic because they really can speak to us in many ways.
Well, that's especially true about the Tenth Canto. It may not be so true about other things, we've discussed them in the past. But the story always grabs us in some way or another. And that's probably because those who spoke the story in the entire line, and the way in which we get it - I don't mean just directly from the translation, I mean the way in which, the Bhagavatam is actually written down - all experienced it.
So it's that experience, which is being translated to us. And the reason, it works, is, because our awareness embraces the mood of the experience and experiences it ourselves. So that is what makes it a wonderful exchange, the way, we embrace that with our own awareness, that is the moment.
Okay, so let's say that we have a pile of knowledge and it's all there. But the most important aspect of it is when that can be shared with someone else. Because the expressing of it gives us in this moment another taste of the experience.
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Hari: I'm going to paraphrase another question. I'm going to put it like this, this other question here: To actually experience the Divine, must one be oneself Divine?
Well, yes, 100%. So long as we are identifying with or interacting, from the platform of humanness these divine energies are not available. To the degree, that we can experience our divine awareness, to that degree we can connect to the divine that is outside of us. For example the relationships of gopis and Krishna.
The idea is like this, I'll tell you a story. In 1971 I was the only one who had a recorder, a real one. I used to record, I could do multitrack, in those days it was very rudimentary. And so I was recording Prabhupada's bajans. So he was singing and playing harmonium and somebody was playing karatalas - I forgot who, probably Pradyumna - and then I overdubbed him playing mridanga.
And then Pradyumna, left I think, and Prabhupad was sitting on his rocking chair right next to me and he wanted to hear it. So I set up the speakers and we played back the tape. And at that time I not only heard the sound, but I saw the sound, I could touch the sound, I could taste the sound. I was totally absorbed on multi-sensual levels with the sound. And Prabhupad saw that and together we were experiencing this. He was just looking at me and (was) smiling.
That's not possible, when you're living on the level of the human existence. You have to enter into a divine atmosphere, divine energy, and then the experiences, you have, are so much broader, so much more all encompassing.
One of the most misunderstood rasas is Shanta rasa. Really nobody gets their head around it. But in that deepest level each and every object, each and every thing, that is related to Krishna or Radha, or within the spiritual realm, is within that Shanta rasa and is deeply connected to Krishna.Therefore the meaning (of it), it has a much more deeper existence than just a thing.
You can't just, you know, accept, that in the spiritual world are all these spiritual beings, and everything else is just some stuff. And what's really fascinating, is, how the entirety of that existence is of that awareness - whatever that awareness may be - but is of that awareness of connection of experience.
Maybe Krishna's friends are in that complete awareness and experience of that activity, of being a friend, and all the things, friends do. And the conch shell that is used, the flower, that is passed around, is in that same absorption. So there is no existence, there's no experience outside of the living matter and other stuff, everything is of that divine nature. So when we see that, when we have that awareness, when we experience that, we may see that divinity everywhere.
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Time 1:12:23
Kamalamala: I remember, sometimes our whole life was like a spiritual story. There were many things (therein) that we don't like nowadays. But in reality the goal and the activity were maybe illusionary, I don't know, (maybe) very idealistic, but the story was really wonderful. You know, I mean, there are different kinds of stories people can live in their life.
Hari: I would like to immediately comment on your usage of the word illusory. Kamalamala: No, I don't really mean illusory, I mean idealistic.
Hari: Either way. I like the idea, that you're defending the experience as part of the story, which was very wonderful for some time. Certainly that was true in many ways. But that did not last, did it? At one point there were other things, which were pushing on the story. And then there became the desire to keep the story, and then there was the opposition of the actual reality, that you felt you were in. And these two things were in conflict, (they were) becoming more and more in conflict. And the way, to resolve the conflict, is, to put more and more of the reality aside and dive more and more into the story.
I don't want to say something nasty, like how did that work for you? How did that work out for you? You know, I mean, what I'm encouraging, is, to get back to that essence of the experience, of the awareness of the 'now', (of) all spiritual principles, of the wonder of the divinity, and embrace that. And let's not get too hung up (caught up) in the story. There's all kinds of stuff involved in the story, that's not really meant to be there.
Kamalamala: You know, the stories were of course very interesting. Any story - especially the spiritual stories - I mean personal life spiritual stories, it is a very rare thing. As I understand, not everybody has (had) such a story. But in general the stories were based on (an) egoistic principle or on (an) idealistic principle. And because idealistic principle is a spiritual principle and (the) egoistic principle - not every time but if it is really egoistic - it is not spiritual. Shouldn't we develop this idealistic principle, to make our new stories in our present life, in present?
Time 1:27:32
Hari: So, real - How do you say real ego? Real self-absorption. No, self-absorption is in and of itself an incomplete action. Self-absorption means - I suppose, that's what you mean by egoism in one sense - that one is absorbed within the self and is not really expressing life in terms of the empathy, the empathetic understanding of connection.
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So, what I'm doing, I'm setting aside all, that we think, we might think, that is connected to the term egoistic, and (am) going straight to the concept of, what's actually happening, which is, self-absorption. Self-absorption is by definition incomplete. So awareness is not incomplete, awareness is a force, it's part of our energy, that we are aware of that which is there. If you're self-absorbed, you're not aware by definition. So self-absorption and spirituality in its truest sense of the term are not compatible. Did that directly hit on what you're asking?
Kamalamala: You know, for example, when somebody's making, let's say, some dishes for himself and when he's doing something for others and for himself also, it is a completely different thing (as) you know. And also, when a person is so much (absorbed) in only himself and he doesn't care about neighbors, doesn't want to speak with them, doesn't want to even say hello or something like that, which is in Russia a usual thing by the way. And this is making life, you know, completely useless, and there cannot be any question of awareness. Shouldn't one, who want to develop his awareness, try, to develop to come out from himself?
Hari: The key element here is empathy. Empathy cannot be learned. You cannot learn how to be empathetic. You either are empathetic or you're not. And what is empathy, but the expression of awareness. If you're aware of the people around you, that includes, feeling how they feel, that is actual awareness.
You can't really learn empathy, it's something, that is a product of your awareness. So what you can do, is learn, how to be aware, how to get rid of all these distractions, and just understand, who you are, and (that) you do not exist as an island independent of others. So developing this idea is to let go of all of these demands. Like, selfish people, who are self-absorbed, have demands (there's something) what they want for themselves. So they're hankering to attain so many things and defending themselves against lost.
And spiritual principles again: Letting go of all that stuff, you'll be able, to just feel in the moment. When you (are able to) feel in the moment, (therein) that awareness (that you have developed) is automatically included. So the whole trick, if there's any, is to stop all this creation of artificiality outside of the moment. I hope that answered (your question).
Kamalamala: Yes, thank you, Hari-ji.
Hari: Here's an important question. It's in line with the lecture. How do the stories help us grow and (to) become aware of our reality?
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Time 1:37:12
Well, I used the word story in multiple ways today. So I'm going to take it to mean the story of that (what) we sometimes call myth, the cultural phenomena of the spiritual environment, within which we are living or wish to live. Is that correct? (Hari is asking the person, who asked the question in the chat.)
So, the stories of Krishna that are in the Bhagavatam, how (do) they help us to grow?
Well, let's just talk about the Bhagavatam in general (and) not have to specifically talk about the Tenth Canto, but let's just talk about those stories, which are presented (in the Bhagavatam). I made personally - I can only talk from my personal experience, I'll share that with you - a lot of realizations and a lot of internal development with some very specific stories. Like, the way in which grandfather Bishma, that (who) was such an important personality within the entire culture, was for me just fascinating. The struggle he had to go through, the austerity he had to accept, for the sake of others, it was just for me very inspiring.
So that created within me an awareness of the much greater depth of our personal responsibility to existence. Or Brahma in creation, I mean when he had to create, even he created personalities, who wanted to eat him. I mean, you know, it wasn't like he was doing it for fun. He had a blueprint, he was, like, following and, you know, he was getting in trouble even doing it (and) he still went on. And even that the awareness of that bigger picture was just for me so inspiring. And when I say inspiring, I mean, it made me really consider these things, made me really deeply dive into the, what's going on here. And this expanded my reality very much, my awareness of the reality.
I mean, there are many, many different stories in the way in which, I experienced them from the point of view, of: My goodness, there's so much important understanding here that will expand, how I see myself and my role in reality. Not (at) all of it I had the same feeling. There was quite a lot which I read and I said, okay... Some of it was mh, some of it was ah, that's really important.
Each and every person, each and every one of you, see these stories in your own particular way. Something's speak to you, something's do not speak to you. But something will speak to you, otherwise you wouldn't be reading the book. There's even this one part, where the sage is talking about in the later Cantos, how even the crack in the sidewalk is teaching him something. The tree is teaching him, the bird is teaching him, he's getting awareness from all these beings.How these things speak to you, depends on you. It never really bothered me, that some of the stories didn't speak to me at all, because some of them did. That was enough.
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Maha translates a question of a participant on Zoom: Who is Lord Brahma, because it is quite (very) little written about him in the Vedas? Would you please tell a little bid more about Brahma.
1:47:26
Hari: I have a theory. If you don't mind, hearing my theory, I can share it with you. Okay, here's my theory. You have this enormous reservoir of everything, the unmanifest, this massive source of energy and all unmanifesting in potential. So the universe is there, it just takes birth, it is filled with this energy, and within it goes the programmer. Brahma is the massive, we would call, massive artificial intelligence. This personality, who enters into this unmanifest, this massive unmanifest, and is connected to each and every aspect of it. Just like that artificial intelligence is connected to all aspects of that massive computer, that runs it. And so Brahma's task is, to just create the space and fill it. It's very technical. It's incredibly, massively, universally, sophisticated technical.
We're using Zoom. We probably know about the person, who created it, or the people, who are managing different business things or whatever. You may have heard about them. But because the person, who created this thing, is so massively better at computer technology, programming and organization and so on, we don't even know, who they are. And even if we knew, we wouldn't understand one thing (anything) hey did.
So you have this Brahma, who's this massive, artificial - not artificial, but actual intelligence - who's making everything there, (to which, to whom) we have no access. We can't connect, there's no way, there's nothing about us, that has the capacity, to connect to him. And because of that there's no methodology, to do it. You don't find it anywhere.
And there's a cover story, to cover that lacking in our abilities, you know, that he did something and therefore nobody worships him. Sure, why not. The story works, we all believe it, everybody's happy. And Brahma doesn't want to be bothered by all of our inquiries. You know, it's like going to the MIT, the massive artificial intelligence creator there or quantum computer creator, and then you go, (you ask): Wow, what's a bit? Did that help?
Kamalamala: Yes, thank you very much. It was so interesting.
Hari-ji, but there is a question about Durga Devi. I mean, because she had to deal with this material creation, as I know. It is very interesting to understand, in the same way, what she's doing.
Time 1:55:02
Hari: She's very misunderstood, very misrepresented. Because we are not able to comprehend, we have no entrance into the situations, that she is holding together or taking care of - we have no entrance into it. And unfortunately there's a lot of potential for using the circumstances and situations, that she enters into, to distort them in such a way, that it serves somebody's self-interest.
I can try, to clarify in a very generic way. In a family the mother does, what is necessary, to keep everything the way, it's supposed to be. And when I mean does, what is necessary, I mean, whatever is necessary, regardless of, what it is or when it is. Similarly Goddess Durga acts as the mother. And that means, straightening up messes, that means chastising, that means disciplining, that means setting straight, that means creating order, that means slapping you in the face if needed.
But that also means protection, protecting you, means feeding you, means caring for you, means supporting you, nourishing. So she's a complex personality. Just like any mother is a complex personality. A relationship with Goddess Durga is very difficult. The safest and the easiest for most people is to see her in that way as Ma, the universal Goddess.
Kamalamala. Thank you, Hari-ji. But (did) she had something to do with the creation of this universe?
Time 2:00:27
Hari: One of Brahma's acts, the first acts, Brahma creates the space, fills the space. Then there's the demigods, the Devas and all the personalities, who are going to in their own way make the subsequent creation. Lord Shiva's energy and Goddess Parvati's energy is as father, seed-giving father and mother. So part of that is the superimposition of their personalities within that form of the unmanifest, the form created from the unmanifest, that becomes the working universal energy.
Hari: If he (Maha, the translater) could translate, what I just said good, you should stand up and give him a standing ovation. Because I couldn't even repeat it, what to speak of translate it.
Kamalamala: He did it actually.
Maha: I was typing and making script of what you've said.
Hari: I don't care, what you did, that was spectacular. (Hari smiles)
When I put the period on that sentence, I said: Oh God, he's cooked now (now he can't keep up). You know, you want to have details about these? You're talking about something so massive, something so beyond our comprehension, that even asking such questions, is hopeless. But still I'm trying. (Hari smiles)
Kamalamala: Thank you. I just want to comment. Because (when) we are coming to these personalities, we should feel, who are there (who these are), their greatness, is very important to understand.
Hari: I've seen that within ISKCON there was this tendency, to denigrate devas, demigods, to denigrate, that they are not that important. And I chalk that up to lack of awareness (of), what actually is going on. Such as that.
Goodbye everybody! Thank you for spending your time. Good luck to all of you!
.
A lecture by Hari broadcasted live on Zoom on 1.10.2021
Watch and listen to at: https://youtu.be/_B5M5J0S_x4
"Live right here, right now, in this moment! This moment never dies, this moment is never born, this moment is ever existing and there is nothing but this moment - and that is eternity."
"The real thing is this right now, right here this moment, this is life. This is life for you, this is life for the demigods, this is life for Krishna."
"The purpose of life is to live. We don't need any other purpose than that." "Your existence is based on the act of living at every moment."
Time: 2:16
Thank you all for coming. I know it's very hot over there, (in Russia) unusually hot. But just be thankful you don't live in Kuwait. It was 70 degrees yesterday. I saw a picture, car fenders were melting, the fenders of a car, the plastic ones they were just melting.
I actually had something that, I think, would be interesting to talk about. And the reason I discovered it was that, you know, I every now and then I read the news. And there was this scholar (it was actually on the radio) and the scholar was talking about the mythologies, that are created within the stories, we share on social media, and other mechanisms that we have today. And it was in the context of the concept of political correctness, which has become a very big thing nowadays. And he was explaining, how the role of social media and how we are interacting with each other and how we are speaking, is creating a story.
And he said, that these stories can be understood in terms of myths. That a myth is not something that doesn't exist, it's (rather) a story explaining something. And he explained that that was a very important distinction, because sometimes people discount something: "That's just a myth." So when we say: "That's just a myth", the implication when you say it like that, is, that it doesn't exist it's just some kind of phantasmagoria. But he said, that something is a myth, does not mean, it does not exist. It definitely exists, it exists as a story that at one point in time was very relevant to the people who created it. And that these myths are very much related to the culture and time within which they were born.
And I thought that was very significant. For example right now we all have like a collective consciousness and people are so upset with what other people say. And it becomes such a big deal and there's so much anger and so much discussion. And within this discussion and in these exchanges there are implications, (such) as if this is right (and) that is wrong, you can say this but you can't say that, you are ignorant and I am wise.
So there are all these implications within the stories, that are being told by each of us. Now I must admit, I've shared my dislike of social media. Because after all why should I care, what you ate for breakfast? Why should I care, that you're smiling with your friends over there? Why should I care, you think about this or that? But what is actually happening - because this person reframed the way I think about it - is, that each person is telling their story. In other words, this my life, this is my story, this is, who I am.
2
That's very important. That is really, really, really important. Yesterday Kamala told me about an experience she had at her work. You know, everybody, that she works with, they're on probation. Which means, that they have been convicted of some crime. The judge has placed them on probation, meaning, they must go to the therapy, that is offered at this place, they must go to the education there. They must perform certain actions, to get off of probation, so they can enter (integrate) into society again. And because this is part of the Department of Justice, certain mentalities (rules of conduct) were carried over (were adopted) as in (like a) discipline (disciplinary measure). You do, what you're told, you don't talk back, you follow the regime, the regiment, and so on.
So Kamala was looking in the class and seeing, that this one girl was sleeping basically through the class, she just was totally disconnected (from what was going on there). So she managed, to get her, to come into the office. And what she did, was, she said: "Listen, tell me about yourself. I want to know about yourself. I want to know, what you like, I want to know you, what it is, that you are, who you are." Now I'm compressing a lot of hours of effort, because this is way more difficult than you think. But this was the basic idea.
So this girl started talking, you know, one sentence or one little thing. And so then Kamala said: "Oh really? That's very interesting." And then she (the girl) said (continued with) something else. And then it became a dialogue, where the girl was speaking and Kamala was listening and appreciating. And the more this girl talked and the more she saw, she was being appreciated, for who she was, she changed entirely. There's not one person on this planet - my God, that's even true for horses, or for dogs or for cats - who does not appreciate, being listened to and being appreciated for who they are.
Some people they just talk all the time and they're trying, to get other people's attention, so that they would listen to them (and) appreciate them. This is one of the things, they do. And other people just close up entirely, because they think, nobody cares, nobody listens. But within we all have the same motive. We want to be heard, we want to be appreciated, we want to be listened to. And one of the most important things is to understand, that somebody cares.
So, as I grow older - it's a process, of entering into a mood - my mood is, to really listen. I don't need to be with a specific, certain kind of person. I try, to apply the same methodology to anybody. Which is to see, there's a person in front of me, my role is, to listen and to as best I can appreciate them.
But sometimes we say: "I can't do that with this person, because this person is bad because of this, this, this and that." Now, it may be true, they did this, this, this and that or they think this, this and that, but that's not the point. Who am I? That is the point. Is it my role, to judge and condemn, or is it my role, to listen and be involved, in what's happening right now between me and this person? Now, I'm not saying (and) I'm not trying to be like - I don't know - completely idealistic here. Meaning, you should go out and just, you know, try to convert the world with your love, by listening to everybody.
3
Time 19:59
But if I find myself in front of this person, it's in my interest to be acting in a way, which is also in their interest. So, what is my interest? Again we come to the point of, well, who am I? Which is a question, one asks continuously. I don't mean the boring "Who am I? I'm a spirit soul, blah blah blah." I don't mean that. I mean, who am I right now?
Let's talk about the myth. That's the end of one chapter, what I just said before. Now let's talk about the myth, because I'd like to go back to the basics again. Each of us are embracing a story and this story is a combination of everything, that we have accepted throughout our many, many lives. The most important part of our story is that, which we experience to such a degree, that it has become an integral part of our conscious awareness. And religion, spirituality, all of this, that we have learned, is very much a part of our story.
And this is true for every single person, who has awareness and experience of such a tradition. Everybody has their story, that's developed from their upbringing, from the culture, within which they grew, from all that, they learned and all their knowledge, all the knowledge they have attained. But mostly from the experiences they've had.
Now, what makes our experiences the powerful events they are, is, that while we are in them, our awareness, is very highly tuned. This is true for all experiences. But the ones that become life-changing, are those, done with complete and full awareness and connection.
Like I used to go surfing. I know, that's not something, that I talk about often, but (I) used to be a surfer, yeah. So you're on the wave with the board and you got to really pay attention. I mean, you really have to be aware, of what you're doing, otherwise blub, blub, blub, you go all over the place and the board comes and cracks you on the head. Or being a fireman and having to be, you know, number one hose-man. (That) means, you're going in first, (and) everybody's throwing water on you and you're shooting (extinguishing) a fire. You really have to be aware, (and be) really focused, and that experience is very deeply ingrained in you.
Or you are in a kirtan with really very incredible beats and very nice synchronicity between all the people and the tone and you're just uplifted in that experience and you're fully aware at that time. Or you're connected to the deities and you're just completely feeling their embrace and reciprocating that with that awareness of that experience. A powerful experience is generally connected with that awareness, that focus, that connection.
4
So similarly the most significant things that make you who you are, are connected to these most powerful experiences. So the story, that we live within, is an atmosphere, that we wish to live our lives within the basis of that story. And when that story corresponds to our experiences, then it is very relevant, it is very real. And when that story does not correspond, we get out of sync, we get out of whack, we get somehow or another... things are not working (somehow).
So each and every religious culture throughout history is born within a cultural reality, the reality, of what it was like at that time. It was created within a story, which was relevant to everybody. It is not necessarily so, that the story is the basis of all things in existence. And neither does that matter. Because regardless, how the story of the spiritual culture was created or how it grew or how it was nourished, there are certain elements within each of them, that are far more important.
I mean if God plays a flute or doesn't play a flute, is not really the most essential ingredient here. Have you heard the flute? Have you seen him do it? So if you haven't experienced this, you are embracing a story. So that means, you heard something or you read something, and you embraced it, as your story or the story you wish to create.
Now I'm not saying, there's right or wrong in any of this. I'm just trying to chart out, what's actually happening. Because the story is very much related to the cultural circumstances, the historical circumstances at that time. But that is neither here nor there in this discussion. Because within any story, within any spiritual atmosphere that is created, there's the essence of these experiences, which are far more important to each of us. And so when we discuss these and then look back on the story again, it will help us, understand this better.
There are certain existential, fundamental ingredients to our experience. We usually speak of it, in terms of things being eternal. That's used in all religions, all spiritual traditions - the everlastingness of it and the knowledge of it all as opposed to ignorance. And the way, in which we integrate the self within the environment and experience it in a very joyful way. Indeed this is exactly how we speak about Krishna, sat cit ananda vigraha.
So this is very much part of that life. And the purpose of life is to live. We don't need any other purpose than that. We don't need to create empires, we don't need to create websites, we don't need to create new recipes, we don't need to create a crochet blanket. (Maha asks: "What is crochet?") Hari answers: You know, you make a blanket or you sew cloth. Because after a while, you die, all of those things just merge to (with) the dust of all things.
5
Do you think, that God would create you with such an idea, that your purpose is, to do or create something? Sure, you can do things, sure, you can create things, but that's not your purpose. Your existence is based on the act of living at every moment.
So don't keep creating these plans and hanker (further) for this and that, and don't keep lamenting about, what you did in the past and all of that! Live right here, right now, in this moment! This moment never dies, this moment is never born, this moment is ever existing and there is nothing but this moment - and that is eternity. Eternity, that weird word, which seems to be a big distance between the way back there and the way over there. But the real thing is this right now, right here this moment, this is life. This is life for you, this is life for the demigods, this is life for Krishna. Right here, right now.
Now, this is essential, this is the essential experience because it only can take place now. So if you wish to have a story, the story has to happen now. So the entirety of spiritual life, wherever you may have it, however you may talk about it, is obtained right now. So you can live right now in darkness and ignorance, you can live right now in awareness. If you are aware of the now, of you within the now - this is it right here - you're aware, this is the essence.
Now you may say, knowledge is more important, you have to learn things. If you know, Krishna plays the flute, is the 'now' better? Are you more aware? Are you closer to self? Are you closer to God? What if Krishna is not playing the flute that day? The idea of knowledge as a thing in and of itself, that somehow serves you, maybe, sure. But the person, who is served (by, with, that knowledge), is right here, right now, in full awareness. I'm aware, my throat is getting a little this (dry), (Hari puts his hand to his throat) so I'm aware, (that I'm) drinking this water. Well, it temporarily helps.
Time 42:55
The knowledge served my capacity to exchange in awareness and present. Now, how does that lead to bliss? Well, if I just lead my life absorbed in all of these facts and I'm reading all these stories or histories and I'm continually discussing all this stuff, in and of itself this is not creating bliss. What actually helps us is the story.
So let's talk about, how the story is told. Sukadeva Gosvami, when he spoke the Tenth Canto of the Srimad-Bhagavatam, did so with such an incredible, beyond anybody's understanding usage of Sanskrit poetry. With allegory and - how do you call it? - the meter, the rhyme, the meter, the tempo, the way, in which it was metaphorically explained, with such beautiful terms, it just created such a beautiful mood and feeling.
6
But that poetry is only available to really high-class Sanskritists, who can actually read it and comprehend, what was just said. Because part of telling a story is the way in which, you tell it. You have to somehow or another - because words don't just cut it - they have to be said in such a way, that they grab the audience. For the story to work, has to have a plot, has to have a series of characters, has to have a very dynamic way in which it unfolds.
So telling the story is very important. It's not just some imagery, it has to be told in a way, which grabs you. Or that's really hard, when you have to take it from this ancient language, which is not spoken, and translate it into a language, that is spoken. That is really hard. And then it gets even harder, when you do a translation of a translation. For knowledge, that comes from even these incredible stories, is incomplete.
So we have to absorb the mood, we have to absorb the awareness of these experiences and taste them for ourselves. And that's what, you know, I've kinda been trying, to do in our relationships. But it's up to each of us, we are the authors of our destiny.
Sometimes I feel like a fraud. (Maha asks: Fraud means?) Hari answers: You know, I feel, like I'm cheating everybody. I mean, who am I, to tell you, how to live? I mean, it all boils down to your own awareness, your own experience, your own connection. It really has very little to do with me. But I try anyway. That shows you, how stupid I am. (Hari laughs) Or blind idealism, as if I could do something, that would really be useful. And sometimes you even say, "Hey that's really useful." And I go: "Really?"
But actually, if it's useful, it's you who are expanding your awareness, it's you who are expanding your experience. And somehow or another you end up being grateful to me. But it's not me, it's you. Now, I know that sounds very casual of me, very blasé. Like, you know: "Oh, it's not very important what we're doing here." But I don't feel like that. I come here with great sincerity. But I know full well, each and everyone of you has extraordinary capacities.
And one day you're going to get on that 'surfboard at the top of a really nice curling wave' and you're going to say: "Yes, that's it." And then you're going to seek that out. But then you're going to get frustrated, because it's not a common thing. But still you seek it out and that's good. And then we get together and then we talk about it or then we share that desire together. And that's good, that's very good. (Hari smiles) And therefore (that's why) we do this, to come together and share that really wonderful experience, that is our essence. Okay, I think, I said enough.
7
Time: 56:08
Hari: Here's a very interesting comment. I'll read it and Maha, you can translate it. The person who wrote me, said: "I am the greatest skeptic, but those Srimad Bhagavatam stories are wonderful. Literal, non-literal, maybe it does not matter."
Hari: Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean for sure. You know, what Prabhupada did, I'm always in awe of what he did. I mean, it was really a massive action he did by translating. You got to understand he's a native Bengali speaker, English is a second language (for him). So he's taking Sanskrit and (is) going (translating it) into a secondary language for him, English. So what he did was, he read the story and tried to reproduce the story for us. There's a difference between just translating the words and telling a story. And it's amazing how he told the story.
So there's two ways in which a story is told. One of them, like I said before, is through the incredible usage of the words and the language and descriptions, and the other is through the plot and the imagery and the way, it sounds to you. So we may not have access to the language and all of the beauty of it, but we definitely have access to the stories, and that is very inspiring. And the stories are fantastic because they really can speak to us in many ways.
Well, that's especially true about the Tenth Canto. It may not be so true about other things, we've discussed them in the past. But the story always grabs us in some way or another. And that's probably because those who spoke the story in the entire line, and the way in which we get it - I don't mean just directly from the translation, I mean the way in which, the Bhagavatam is actually written down - all experienced it.
So it's that experience, which is being translated to us. And the reason, it works, is, because our awareness embraces the mood of the experience and experiences it ourselves. So that is what makes it a wonderful exchange, the way, we embrace that with our own awareness, that is the moment.
Okay, so let's say that we have a pile of knowledge and it's all there. But the most important aspect of it is when that can be shared with someone else. Because the expressing of it gives us in this moment another taste of the experience.
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8
Hari: I'm going to paraphrase another question. I'm going to put it like this, this other question here: To actually experience the Divine, must one be oneself Divine?
Well, yes, 100%. So long as we are identifying with or interacting, from the platform of humanness these divine energies are not available. To the degree, that we can experience our divine awareness, to that degree we can connect to the divine that is outside of us. For example the relationships of gopis and Krishna.
The idea is like this, I'll tell you a story. In 1971 I was the only one who had a recorder, a real one. I used to record, I could do multitrack, in those days it was very rudimentary. And so I was recording Prabhupada's bajans. So he was singing and playing harmonium and somebody was playing karatalas - I forgot who, probably Pradyumna - and then I overdubbed him playing mridanga.
And then Pradyumna, left I think, and Prabhupad was sitting on his rocking chair right next to me and he wanted to hear it. So I set up the speakers and we played back the tape. And at that time I not only heard the sound, but I saw the sound, I could touch the sound, I could taste the sound. I was totally absorbed on multi-sensual levels with the sound. And Prabhupad saw that and together we were experiencing this. He was just looking at me and (was) smiling.
That's not possible, when you're living on the level of the human existence. You have to enter into a divine atmosphere, divine energy, and then the experiences, you have, are so much broader, so much more all encompassing.
One of the most misunderstood rasas is Shanta rasa. Really nobody gets their head around it. But in that deepest level each and every object, each and every thing, that is related to Krishna or Radha, or within the spiritual realm, is within that Shanta rasa and is deeply connected to Krishna.Therefore the meaning (of it), it has a much more deeper existence than just a thing.
You can't just, you know, accept, that in the spiritual world are all these spiritual beings, and everything else is just some stuff. And what's really fascinating, is, how the entirety of that existence is of that awareness - whatever that awareness may be - but is of that awareness of connection of experience.
Maybe Krishna's friends are in that complete awareness and experience of that activity, of being a friend, and all the things, friends do. And the conch shell that is used, the flower, that is passed around, is in that same absorption. So there is no existence, there's no experience outside of the living matter and other stuff, everything is of that divine nature. So when we see that, when we have that awareness, when we experience that, we may see that divinity everywhere.
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9
Time 1:12:23
Kamalamala: I remember, sometimes our whole life was like a spiritual story. There were many things (therein) that we don't like nowadays. But in reality the goal and the activity were maybe illusionary, I don't know, (maybe) very idealistic, but the story was really wonderful. You know, I mean, there are different kinds of stories people can live in their life.
Hari: I would like to immediately comment on your usage of the word illusory. Kamalamala: No, I don't really mean illusory, I mean idealistic.
Hari: Either way. I like the idea, that you're defending the experience as part of the story, which was very wonderful for some time. Certainly that was true in many ways. But that did not last, did it? At one point there were other things, which were pushing on the story. And then there became the desire to keep the story, and then there was the opposition of the actual reality, that you felt you were in. And these two things were in conflict, (they were) becoming more and more in conflict. And the way, to resolve the conflict, is, to put more and more of the reality aside and dive more and more into the story.
I don't want to say something nasty, like how did that work for you? How did that work out for you? You know, I mean, what I'm encouraging, is, to get back to that essence of the experience, of the awareness of the 'now', (of) all spiritual principles, of the wonder of the divinity, and embrace that. And let's not get too hung up (caught up) in the story. There's all kinds of stuff involved in the story, that's not really meant to be there.
Kamalamala: You know, the stories were of course very interesting. Any story - especially the spiritual stories - I mean personal life spiritual stories, it is a very rare thing. As I understand, not everybody has (had) such a story. But in general the stories were based on (an) egoistic principle or on (an) idealistic principle. And because idealistic principle is a spiritual principle and (the) egoistic principle - not every time but if it is really egoistic - it is not spiritual. Shouldn't we develop this idealistic principle, to make our new stories in our present life, in present?
Time 1:27:32
Hari: So, real - How do you say real ego? Real self-absorption. No, self-absorption is in and of itself an incomplete action. Self-absorption means - I suppose, that's what you mean by egoism in one sense - that one is absorbed within the self and is not really expressing life in terms of the empathy, the empathetic understanding of connection.
10
So, what I'm doing, I'm setting aside all, that we think, we might think, that is connected to the term egoistic, and (am) going straight to the concept of, what's actually happening, which is, self-absorption. Self-absorption is by definition incomplete. So awareness is not incomplete, awareness is a force, it's part of our energy, that we are aware of that which is there. If you're self-absorbed, you're not aware by definition. So self-absorption and spirituality in its truest sense of the term are not compatible. Did that directly hit on what you're asking?
Kamalamala: You know, for example, when somebody's making, let's say, some dishes for himself and when he's doing something for others and for himself also, it is a completely different thing (as) you know. And also, when a person is so much (absorbed) in only himself and he doesn't care about neighbors, doesn't want to speak with them, doesn't want to even say hello or something like that, which is in Russia a usual thing by the way. And this is making life, you know, completely useless, and there cannot be any question of awareness. Shouldn't one, who want to develop his awareness, try, to develop to come out from himself?
Hari: The key element here is empathy. Empathy cannot be learned. You cannot learn how to be empathetic. You either are empathetic or you're not. And what is empathy, but the expression of awareness. If you're aware of the people around you, that includes, feeling how they feel, that is actual awareness.
You can't really learn empathy, it's something, that is a product of your awareness. So what you can do, is learn, how to be aware, how to get rid of all these distractions, and just understand, who you are, and (that) you do not exist as an island independent of others. So developing this idea is to let go of all of these demands. Like, selfish people, who are self-absorbed, have demands (there's something) what they want for themselves. So they're hankering to attain so many things and defending themselves against lost.
And spiritual principles again: Letting go of all that stuff, you'll be able, to just feel in the moment. When you (are able to) feel in the moment, (therein) that awareness (that you have developed) is automatically included. So the whole trick, if there's any, is to stop all this creation of artificiality outside of the moment. I hope that answered (your question).
Kamalamala: Yes, thank you, Hari-ji.
Hari: Here's an important question. It's in line with the lecture. How do the stories help us grow and (to) become aware of our reality?
11
Time 1:37:12
Well, I used the word story in multiple ways today. So I'm going to take it to mean the story of that (what) we sometimes call myth, the cultural phenomena of the spiritual environment, within which we are living or wish to live. Is that correct? (Hari is asking the person, who asked the question in the chat.)
So, the stories of Krishna that are in the Bhagavatam, how (do) they help us to grow?
Well, let's just talk about the Bhagavatam in general (and) not have to specifically talk about the Tenth Canto, but let's just talk about those stories, which are presented (in the Bhagavatam). I made personally - I can only talk from my personal experience, I'll share that with you - a lot of realizations and a lot of internal development with some very specific stories. Like, the way in which grandfather Bishma, that (who) was such an important personality within the entire culture, was for me just fascinating. The struggle he had to go through, the austerity he had to accept, for the sake of others, it was just for me very inspiring.
So that created within me an awareness of the much greater depth of our personal responsibility to existence. Or Brahma in creation, I mean when he had to create, even he created personalities, who wanted to eat him. I mean, you know, it wasn't like he was doing it for fun. He had a blueprint, he was, like, following and, you know, he was getting in trouble even doing it (and) he still went on. And even that the awareness of that bigger picture was just for me so inspiring. And when I say inspiring, I mean, it made me really consider these things, made me really deeply dive into the, what's going on here. And this expanded my reality very much, my awareness of the reality.
I mean, there are many, many different stories in the way in which, I experienced them from the point of view, of: My goodness, there's so much important understanding here that will expand, how I see myself and my role in reality. Not (at) all of it I had the same feeling. There was quite a lot which I read and I said, okay... Some of it was mh, some of it was ah, that's really important.
Each and every person, each and every one of you, see these stories in your own particular way. Something's speak to you, something's do not speak to you. But something will speak to you, otherwise you wouldn't be reading the book. There's even this one part, where the sage is talking about in the later Cantos, how even the crack in the sidewalk is teaching him something. The tree is teaching him, the bird is teaching him, he's getting awareness from all these beings.How these things speak to you, depends on you. It never really bothered me, that some of the stories didn't speak to me at all, because some of them did. That was enough.
12
Maha translates a question of a participant on Zoom: Who is Lord Brahma, because it is quite (very) little written about him in the Vedas? Would you please tell a little bid more about Brahma.
1:47:26
Hari: I have a theory. If you don't mind, hearing my theory, I can share it with you. Okay, here's my theory. You have this enormous reservoir of everything, the unmanifest, this massive source of energy and all unmanifesting in potential. So the universe is there, it just takes birth, it is filled with this energy, and within it goes the programmer. Brahma is the massive, we would call, massive artificial intelligence. This personality, who enters into this unmanifest, this massive unmanifest, and is connected to each and every aspect of it. Just like that artificial intelligence is connected to all aspects of that massive computer, that runs it. And so Brahma's task is, to just create the space and fill it. It's very technical. It's incredibly, massively, universally, sophisticated technical.
We're using Zoom. We probably know about the person, who created it, or the people, who are managing different business things or whatever. You may have heard about them. But because the person, who created this thing, is so massively better at computer technology, programming and organization and so on, we don't even know, who they are. And even if we knew, we wouldn't understand one thing (anything) hey did.
So you have this Brahma, who's this massive, artificial - not artificial, but actual intelligence - who's making everything there, (to which, to whom) we have no access. We can't connect, there's no way, there's nothing about us, that has the capacity, to connect to him. And because of that there's no methodology, to do it. You don't find it anywhere.
And there's a cover story, to cover that lacking in our abilities, you know, that he did something and therefore nobody worships him. Sure, why not. The story works, we all believe it, everybody's happy. And Brahma doesn't want to be bothered by all of our inquiries. You know, it's like going to the MIT, the massive artificial intelligence creator there or quantum computer creator, and then you go, (you ask): Wow, what's a bit? Did that help?
Kamalamala: Yes, thank you very much. It was so interesting.
Hari-ji, but there is a question about Durga Devi. I mean, because she had to deal with this material creation, as I know. It is very interesting to understand, in the same way, what she's doing.
Time 1:55:02
Hari: She's very misunderstood, very misrepresented. Because we are not able to comprehend, we have no entrance into the situations, that she is holding together or taking care of - we have no entrance into it. And unfortunately there's a lot of potential for using the circumstances and situations, that she enters into, to distort them in such a way, that it serves somebody's self-interest.
I can try, to clarify in a very generic way. In a family the mother does, what is necessary, to keep everything the way, it's supposed to be. And when I mean does, what is necessary, I mean, whatever is necessary, regardless of, what it is or when it is. Similarly Goddess Durga acts as the mother. And that means, straightening up messes, that means chastising, that means disciplining, that means setting straight, that means creating order, that means slapping you in the face if needed.
But that also means protection, protecting you, means feeding you, means caring for you, means supporting you, nourishing. So she's a complex personality. Just like any mother is a complex personality. A relationship with Goddess Durga is very difficult. The safest and the easiest for most people is to see her in that way as Ma, the universal Goddess.
Kamalamala. Thank you, Hari-ji. But (did) she had something to do with the creation of this universe?
Time 2:00:27
Hari: One of Brahma's acts, the first acts, Brahma creates the space, fills the space. Then there's the demigods, the Devas and all the personalities, who are going to in their own way make the subsequent creation. Lord Shiva's energy and Goddess Parvati's energy is as father, seed-giving father and mother. So part of that is the superimposition of their personalities within that form of the unmanifest, the form created from the unmanifest, that becomes the working universal energy.
Hari: If he (Maha, the translater) could translate, what I just said good, you should stand up and give him a standing ovation. Because I couldn't even repeat it, what to speak of translate it.
Kamalamala: He did it actually.
Maha: I was typing and making script of what you've said.
Hari: I don't care, what you did, that was spectacular. (Hari smiles)
When I put the period on that sentence, I said: Oh God, he's cooked now (now he can't keep up). You know, you want to have details about these? You're talking about something so massive, something so beyond our comprehension, that even asking such questions, is hopeless. But still I'm trying. (Hari smiles)
Kamalamala: Thank you. I just want to comment. Because (when) we are coming to these personalities, we should feel, who are there (who these are), their greatness, is very important to understand.
Hari: I've seen that within ISKCON there was this tendency, to denigrate devas, demigods, to denigrate, that they are not that important. And I chalk that up to lack of awareness (of), what actually is going on. Such as that.
Goodbye everybody! Thank you for spending your time. Good luck to all of you!
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