Importance of the Individual as Opposed to a Group
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:25 pm
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A lecture by Hari from 17.10.2021 on Zoom
YouTube: https://youtu.be/wburAx4CJ7s
So hello to everybody. It's great to see you all. And well, okay, here's some news. I haven't been doing so good over the last week or so. So it was a lot of attention being placed upon health and healing and that is why I'm in the mountains, because it's really good for health and healing. And what I noticed during this time was that I have been forced to adapt and that has been the word which has given me direction over these weeks - adapt.
So it's like here's the situation, adapt! What do (are) you going to do about it? And everybody in our area, I mean familial area here, is having a similar situation. Here's the situation, what are you going to do about it? And I also was recalling my times in the past and all of the different things that were happening during the times in ISKCON, and how I was forced to adapt all the time.
So it's like we wish to have a steady, stable situation and we settle into this situation and we become comfortable in this situation.
4:23
Like when you get older, for example, your hearing starts to get worth. So you find yourself reading lips a lot, you don't even know you're doing it. And so now everybody wears the face mask outside, so you can't read their lips. So you don't have any idea what they just said. And worth, there's sound everywhere in the store. And out of pride I used to pretend I understood everything. I used to go: yeah, yeah, yeah, and get out of there as soon as I could.
So now I've decided, I'm going to be honest. I tell them: "My hearing is not so great, I didn't hear one word you've said, you are going to have to double the volume. And amazingly it works very well. So I went from a position of pride, "I can hear that" to a position of realism, "I can't hear that." So this is been going on little by little. So like this morning we have a huge truck full of hay I bought yesterday. (Maha asks what is hay?) Hari answers: Hay, what horses eat, hay.)
So we've got to, you know, empty the truck of hay early this morning, so Kamala can go out and buy more hay while I'm doing this lecture. Now hay is heavy, bales of hay - heavy stuff. So I say: "Look we can't do this, you know we're both to old and so we got to, we got to do something about this." So I got a cart and we're pushing the hay on to the cart and than pulling the cart up to where it's going to go, and than one, two, three - together lifting it and pulling it. Okay, that worked, we adapted, it worked.
2
Time 9:08
So, was realizing that many of the problems, that we all have, come from our inability to just accept the fact that we have limitations. I mean when you're young, you don't worry about those limitations. When you're young you just do everything, you just go with everything, you don't really consider consequences. We don't think in terms of long term, that it's not a race to finish, it's a journey.
And even more importantly, it's not required that every single step of the way you do everything perfectly perfect. It may be, on this journey, there are various ways in which one has to adapt which for your sake works, maybe doesn't work for someone else's sake.
If you look at the spiritual path from this realm, as we call it, to that realm where we decide to go, it is something which is fraught with troubles everywhere, we meet obstacles. A lot of the obstacles come from other people, but a lot of the obstacles come from our own inability, physical, mental, emotional limitation. Our environment creates obstacles, our economic situation creates obstacles.
So the point is, is this path, that we are on, supposed to be easier than it seems to be, is it supposed to be a very clear, easy path? When I was taking care of devotees, before a long time, I was mainly being asked questions or asked for advice on, "I'm having this trouble, I'm having that trouble, it's all so much trouble, and something's wrong, and how do I solve this?
Can you even solve all this problems? Is it going to be that at some point everybody's going to like you, that everyone is going to cooperate with you and everything's going to just flow? That you're physically going to get so healthy, and just stay that way, and be filled with strength and energy, that you always have enough materials or finances, or everything you need, that you can accomplish all that you must? When you look at it from this point of view, the obvious answer is, no it's not always going to work out. Indeed, mainly you are going to have two, or at least one or two or three things that are going to be obstacles.
Let's go back to the journey idea. You're all in the car, you're driving to the lake where you're going to have a vacation. Well, there's going to be problems. You're going to have to get gas, you're going to have to find somewhere to go to the bathroom, you are going to have to stop and eat, you're going to have to take a nap. And when you get there, there's Moskitos and than there's lots of people around, or maybe not, or you have to set things up or... Obstacles, this is normal. Normal life means periodically, often, dealing with everything that makes up your life right now.
And of all difficulties, the greatest difficulty of all is making decisions. "What should I do?" "I could do this, I could do that, I could do that or I could do nothing." And this can creat great stress. And if, let's say, you have to do something but physically, or emotionally, or mentally, you can't do something, what do you do?
3
Time 18:58
I know that in the Shastra these particular subjects are not very much discussed, if at all. The Shastra talks to us about various spiritual things which are very nice, very interesting - and even useful - but they don't speak to our everyday lives all the time. So when we're on this journey that means we see our life in a very specific way. I mean, @ I used to tell people when they were curious, I would say - because they would ask, "what is the purpose of life," and I would say, "The purpose of life is to live."
But is that the only purpose? And when you say "to live" what does that actually mean? Well it means dealing with whatever is in front of you right now. But that brings up a problem that just... we know it but we don't actually talk about it all that much. Right now, right here, right in front of me, I've got to deal with problems and obstacles, and at the same time I've got to be spiritual.
So we have Krishna and Arjuna on the battlefield of Kurukshetra. @ Arjuna is dealing with obstacles everywhere, he's completely absorbed in choices, in decisions, he has no time to think of anything else - not even a millisecond. How will he be spiritual too at that point? So the concept comes up that, well, "whatever you do and everything you eat, and all that you offer and give away, do as an offering unto me, " so offering unto Krishna. So for Arjuna it's obvious, Krishna told him, "Fight!" But what did Krishna tell you to do? How many people in existence can say they have the luxury of not having to figure it out, they were just told, do this?
So than we require a representative of Krishna, who we believe is telling us the same as Krishna told to Arjuna. And that's very handy, so we go through our dealing with obstacles all the time and we just do what we're told. But are we? Which of you had your guru, or spiritual master, at every moment telling you what to do?
Okay let's say you're given a service: "Go out and sell books!" So while you're doing that you are engaged with your decisions and everything according to that spiritual purpose, so the spiritual purpose is driving that activity. And than when you're not doing that activity, you're just preparing, taking care of yourself, doing things, to prepare for that activity. So it's all fitting together.
So in this way you see how such an organization, where there is such a structure, is very useful in a very important way, it solves all the problems of the how you can take care of everything that's in front of you right now and be spiritual. And that's okay.
4
Time 26:16
But sometimes it doesn't work on the journey. Sometimes (there's) something in that chain of support that breaks down. It doesn't matter what that is, something breaks down and the chain seems to no longer be functioning in the same way that it used to. Because at one point you say, "this journey is... I'm not going to make it in this journey, because at every moment there's all this stuff that I'm dealing with, and I'm having this decisions to make, and than sometimes all that which I'm told, gets cabled into a quilt work of complications."
And those complications are like the people who are representing the order or the management, or maybe the supply chain or maybe your physical wellbeing - it gets into a conflict. Or the decisions you're making are no longer compatible with that which you're supposed to do. You know this is right but you are told that is right and it makes, it comes into opposition.
And what do you do about it? That's where understanding that we're on this journey and that we are the main architects of our journey, and that our capacity to make decisions, to make choices, and be responsible for our own choices, is the primary motivating agent in this. And that all the adapting we do is part of our arrangement to make our lives work, and that it's our responsibility to bring ourselves to that destination which we long for. Where all this noise that is around us fades into the background, and we admit something to ourselves - the actual situation is, no-one will take care of us as well as we can, and it's our responsibility to bring ourselves to that supreme destination - that we accept and embrace our importance.
Many times when you are absorbed in following, or you are in a group action or whatever, you can be minimized, your own importance can be minimized. But when we embrace our own importance, than we have much more strength to deal with the reality that we are in, we can place ourselves in the spiritual position, or the spiritual activity, that we feel is best for us.
In other words the individual becomes the primary focus of spiritual life, and anything the individual might do within a group is based on the importance of the individual. Now, I know, this is, on one hand, not terribly inspiring. Because it means, it's up to me, no one is going to save me, no one is going to come together and hold me up.
But in reality is that what happens? Does anyone actually come and save you? How many times have you seen that in practical life? How many times in practical life do you see the group holding you up? Indeed if you're held up in the group there will be others in the group wanting to pull you down. So the idea of being sheltered in something that is not based in yourself sounds good in theory, in practice (instead it's) not so good.
5
Time 36:35
Now this creates some implications. Here's a couple: If I am really connected with my individual responsibility as a spiritual being for my spiritual life, I see myself in relation to others differently. My entrance into a group action, or group association, is my choice. If I no longer wish to do it, it's my choice to walk away. I know who I am, so I don't need someone else, or some group of someone elses, to define me.
If you don't define yourself, others will rush in to define you, and than you will be overwhelmed with this false identification that you have to deal with. It is very important that we are very secure in our own identification of self.
So how do we deal with all this little things in life that we're adapting to? The best methodology is to accept them. This is who I am, I have limited strength, I have limited capacity. Okay, I don't hear so good or whatever, whatever it might be that I'm limited in, I just accept it. What I am is not required to be confirmed, or amplified, or applauded by others. I am not requiring their praise, and I am not becoming destroyed by their criticism. Because on this journey of spiritual practices, on this journey to the spiritual realms, in this journey to the connection to the divine and all of its wonderful aspects, is an individual one. Yes, it's individual entirely.
Others may be there to offer some assistance, yes. But the spiritual feelings I attain are mine alone, the connections I make with the divine are mine alone. When I leave this body it's my journey alone, and where I end up is my journey alone. In brief it's my consciousness, my individuality, with all of its qualities and characteristics, that are carrying me along this journey.
And if we see others who are offering us assistance we can be grateful, we can embrace that offering, but from the point of view of understanding, the primary focus is the individual and the group is secondary. In other words my identity is not dependent on their definition. (Maha asks: Is not dependent from the? Hari: From their definition of me.)
Now that has many implications to it. That, if you choose to work together with others, it's because they and you have a similar understanding of things, a similar desire. It's kind of like when there's a sports team that works together really, really well, because they all have the same energy, the same desire, they have the same purpose and goal, right there on the spot and it's not deviation. Each individual is strong and empowered and works for the sake of the team, so that they can win. But that only works because each and everyone of them is a strong, independent individual who chooses to work with others.
6
Time 45:46
You know, I know, that without some kind of organization, without some kind of structure, without some kind of system by which everybody can integrate within the spirituality, it becomes very hard for it to develop. And so far I haven't seen any that does that properly. And I think that's because this incredibly important pillar of all social existence, the individual, is not established in that full strength and personal responsibility. Instead we have the situation of forced conformity, of rules and regulations, restrictions and one must be like this.
So sure, maybe we can do it differently. But theory, social theory is not enough. Just being able to talk about it, just being able to explain this is the way to do it, doesn't mean it's going to happen that way. After all I am a realist. But that doesn't mean it's impossible. And it is much easier when the groups are smaller. If there's a smaller group which is together based on the superiority of the individual, each and every individual, who chooses to work together within that group, there's a much greater chance that it will be successful.
I always used to like very much Bhaktivinoda Thakor's ideas about Nama Hatta because it was very much based in the home, in the family, in the individuals of small groups localized everywhere. It's actually genius if you think about it. Bhaktivinoda Thakor in my opinion he really understood people, he really understood social interactions better than anyone. And you can know for sure he was thinking about this points. It's not like I come up with them, I'm original here.
You know for sure he was thinking about this points. Because he was a magistrate, he used to hear cases, he used to mediate disputes, he used to enforce different kinds of codes and laws. He used to see how people argue, he used to see the conflicts right in front of him, he understood very well the nature of people and how they interacted in a situation of dispute. Therefore his system is the one which has the greatest possibility to avoid large scale disputes like that. And almost all this disputes revolve around money and possessions. And so in his Nama Hatta concept money and possessions were not an issue, it was very local.
People got together in each of their homes or they had in their village a small meeting place which they all contributed to. They didn't require lots of money making to support that, or big projects to support that. Very peaceful, very familial interactions within the village environment. So he had, he understood the nature of people, he understood the nature of the social fabric and he created something which was just perfectly suited to carry us through the journey of spiritual life in the easiest way. Everyone in that localized group was part of an organic situation. They grew up there, or they live there, or they work there, it was organic, they had relationships outside of their spiritual cooperation.
7
I must admit when I was starting to talk about community, many years ago, I did not have it fully developed. I remember when my eyes opened really wide, it was in Kamalamala's apartment and we were having dinner together, and we were all talking there at the table about how to creat community. And I was all 'gong ho' and full of enthusiasm to make community. And than I heard like: "But why would I want to live in a community with this one over here when I don't trust, or even know, this one over here?" And than I heard: "I have an okay situation now, why should I give up my okay situation now to depend on whether or not that one over there is going to do what he is supposed to do?" And than I realized: "Oh my god, I got it all wrong!" Okay I admit I got depressed. "Oh my god, did I screw that up big time!"
But than I was thinking that, you know, this whole idea of everybody stoping what you're doing and coming together into something else, is a very modern invention, even in spirituality. It's recent, it's a twenties' century creation. And Bhaktivinoda, he knew this things. It's not like he didn't think of making a temple and having people move into it, it's not like he couldn't think of it, he was brilliant. But he had experience, he was a magistrate, he was a practical person, he knew exactly what would happen.
1:00:35
So he was concentrating on the idea of this organic association - wherever you are. No pressure on the individual to achieve; no pressure on the individual to accomplish; no pressure on the individual to contribute; no pressure on the individual to even work; no pressure on the individual for the sake of a group.
They get together, they're all in the same area, they walk wherever they're walking or however it takes to get in this local area, they chant, they associate spiritually, they make their connections - it works. Because there's no pressure on the individual, no stress - stress in spiritual life are anathema.
And because of that we need a way to continue our spiritual journey without that group stress. But we need group, we need friends, we need association. We are social beings, we require society. Okay, I'm not saying I had the solution, it's I'm just relating an example. It doesn't even have to be with like Hare Krishna people.
I lived in this ecological community in Oxio, in Sweden, and we had meetings in our house of (with) neighbors. And the only thing we had in our minds was, we wanted to get together and creat a peaceful, spiritual atmosphere. My deities were there, we had some nice food, some nice music in the background, some bhajans sneaking in and things like that. And what I've seen is when people are given the opportunity to just contribute in a spiritual manner and allow things to flow, things naturally flow towards Radha and Krishna - I mean maybe far away - but still flowing in the right direction.
8
And our group became very close and very tight. Even when we moved from there they would keeping contact, they were very touched by the spiritual atmosphere we created. I am not saying you have to do this! I am simply talking about it as a subject, because it was on my mind. The importance of the individual as opposed to the importance of a group was on my mind, and how we can make this spiritual life work.
So I admit this was not the best talk, and probably it was totally boring. And you wanted to hear about Radha and Krishna and how we can make connections and all that stuff - I get it. But all I got is what I got. And if this is where my mind is at, this is what comes out of the mouth. So sorry about that.
So if you like to discuss this topic or hey, you can talk about anything you want. If you want putting questions, I'm fine with that, you can put it in the chat.
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A lecture by Hari from 17.10.2021 on Zoom
YouTube: https://youtu.be/wburAx4CJ7s
So hello to everybody. It's great to see you all. And well, okay, here's some news. I haven't been doing so good over the last week or so. So it was a lot of attention being placed upon health and healing and that is why I'm in the mountains, because it's really good for health and healing. And what I noticed during this time was that I have been forced to adapt and that has been the word which has given me direction over these weeks - adapt.
So it's like here's the situation, adapt! What do (are) you going to do about it? And everybody in our area, I mean familial area here, is having a similar situation. Here's the situation, what are you going to do about it? And I also was recalling my times in the past and all of the different things that were happening during the times in ISKCON, and how I was forced to adapt all the time.
So it's like we wish to have a steady, stable situation and we settle into this situation and we become comfortable in this situation.
4:23
Like when you get older, for example, your hearing starts to get worth. So you find yourself reading lips a lot, you don't even know you're doing it. And so now everybody wears the face mask outside, so you can't read their lips. So you don't have any idea what they just said. And worth, there's sound everywhere in the store. And out of pride I used to pretend I understood everything. I used to go: yeah, yeah, yeah, and get out of there as soon as I could.
So now I've decided, I'm going to be honest. I tell them: "My hearing is not so great, I didn't hear one word you've said, you are going to have to double the volume. And amazingly it works very well. So I went from a position of pride, "I can hear that" to a position of realism, "I can't hear that." So this is been going on little by little. So like this morning we have a huge truck full of hay I bought yesterday. (Maha asks what is hay?) Hari answers: Hay, what horses eat, hay.)
So we've got to, you know, empty the truck of hay early this morning, so Kamala can go out and buy more hay while I'm doing this lecture. Now hay is heavy, bales of hay - heavy stuff. So I say: "Look we can't do this, you know we're both to old and so we got to, we got to do something about this." So I got a cart and we're pushing the hay on to the cart and than pulling the cart up to where it's going to go, and than one, two, three - together lifting it and pulling it. Okay, that worked, we adapted, it worked.
2
Time 9:08
So, was realizing that many of the problems, that we all have, come from our inability to just accept the fact that we have limitations. I mean when you're young, you don't worry about those limitations. When you're young you just do everything, you just go with everything, you don't really consider consequences. We don't think in terms of long term, that it's not a race to finish, it's a journey.
And even more importantly, it's not required that every single step of the way you do everything perfectly perfect. It may be, on this journey, there are various ways in which one has to adapt which for your sake works, maybe doesn't work for someone else's sake.
If you look at the spiritual path from this realm, as we call it, to that realm where we decide to go, it is something which is fraught with troubles everywhere, we meet obstacles. A lot of the obstacles come from other people, but a lot of the obstacles come from our own inability, physical, mental, emotional limitation. Our environment creates obstacles, our economic situation creates obstacles.
So the point is, is this path, that we are on, supposed to be easier than it seems to be, is it supposed to be a very clear, easy path? When I was taking care of devotees, before a long time, I was mainly being asked questions or asked for advice on, "I'm having this trouble, I'm having that trouble, it's all so much trouble, and something's wrong, and how do I solve this?
Can you even solve all this problems? Is it going to be that at some point everybody's going to like you, that everyone is going to cooperate with you and everything's going to just flow? That you're physically going to get so healthy, and just stay that way, and be filled with strength and energy, that you always have enough materials or finances, or everything you need, that you can accomplish all that you must? When you look at it from this point of view, the obvious answer is, no it's not always going to work out. Indeed, mainly you are going to have two, or at least one or two or three things that are going to be obstacles.
Let's go back to the journey idea. You're all in the car, you're driving to the lake where you're going to have a vacation. Well, there's going to be problems. You're going to have to get gas, you're going to have to find somewhere to go to the bathroom, you are going to have to stop and eat, you're going to have to take a nap. And when you get there, there's Moskitos and than there's lots of people around, or maybe not, or you have to set things up or... Obstacles, this is normal. Normal life means periodically, often, dealing with everything that makes up your life right now.
And of all difficulties, the greatest difficulty of all is making decisions. "What should I do?" "I could do this, I could do that, I could do that or I could do nothing." And this can creat great stress. And if, let's say, you have to do something but physically, or emotionally, or mentally, you can't do something, what do you do?
3
Time 18:58
I know that in the Shastra these particular subjects are not very much discussed, if at all. The Shastra talks to us about various spiritual things which are very nice, very interesting - and even useful - but they don't speak to our everyday lives all the time. So when we're on this journey that means we see our life in a very specific way. I mean, @ I used to tell people when they were curious, I would say - because they would ask, "what is the purpose of life," and I would say, "The purpose of life is to live."
But is that the only purpose? And when you say "to live" what does that actually mean? Well it means dealing with whatever is in front of you right now. But that brings up a problem that just... we know it but we don't actually talk about it all that much. Right now, right here, right in front of me, I've got to deal with problems and obstacles, and at the same time I've got to be spiritual.
So we have Krishna and Arjuna on the battlefield of Kurukshetra. @ Arjuna is dealing with obstacles everywhere, he's completely absorbed in choices, in decisions, he has no time to think of anything else - not even a millisecond. How will he be spiritual too at that point? So the concept comes up that, well, "whatever you do and everything you eat, and all that you offer and give away, do as an offering unto me, " so offering unto Krishna. So for Arjuna it's obvious, Krishna told him, "Fight!" But what did Krishna tell you to do? How many people in existence can say they have the luxury of not having to figure it out, they were just told, do this?
So than we require a representative of Krishna, who we believe is telling us the same as Krishna told to Arjuna. And that's very handy, so we go through our dealing with obstacles all the time and we just do what we're told. But are we? Which of you had your guru, or spiritual master, at every moment telling you what to do?
Okay let's say you're given a service: "Go out and sell books!" So while you're doing that you are engaged with your decisions and everything according to that spiritual purpose, so the spiritual purpose is driving that activity. And than when you're not doing that activity, you're just preparing, taking care of yourself, doing things, to prepare for that activity. So it's all fitting together.
So in this way you see how such an organization, where there is such a structure, is very useful in a very important way, it solves all the problems of the how you can take care of everything that's in front of you right now and be spiritual. And that's okay.
4
Time 26:16
But sometimes it doesn't work on the journey. Sometimes (there's) something in that chain of support that breaks down. It doesn't matter what that is, something breaks down and the chain seems to no longer be functioning in the same way that it used to. Because at one point you say, "this journey is... I'm not going to make it in this journey, because at every moment there's all this stuff that I'm dealing with, and I'm having this decisions to make, and than sometimes all that which I'm told, gets cabled into a quilt work of complications."
And those complications are like the people who are representing the order or the management, or maybe the supply chain or maybe your physical wellbeing - it gets into a conflict. Or the decisions you're making are no longer compatible with that which you're supposed to do. You know this is right but you are told that is right and it makes, it comes into opposition.
And what do you do about it? That's where understanding that we're on this journey and that we are the main architects of our journey, and that our capacity to make decisions, to make choices, and be responsible for our own choices, is the primary motivating agent in this. And that all the adapting we do is part of our arrangement to make our lives work, and that it's our responsibility to bring ourselves to that destination which we long for. Where all this noise that is around us fades into the background, and we admit something to ourselves - the actual situation is, no-one will take care of us as well as we can, and it's our responsibility to bring ourselves to that supreme destination - that we accept and embrace our importance.
Many times when you are absorbed in following, or you are in a group action or whatever, you can be minimized, your own importance can be minimized. But when we embrace our own importance, than we have much more strength to deal with the reality that we are in, we can place ourselves in the spiritual position, or the spiritual activity, that we feel is best for us.
In other words the individual becomes the primary focus of spiritual life, and anything the individual might do within a group is based on the importance of the individual. Now, I know, this is, on one hand, not terribly inspiring. Because it means, it's up to me, no one is going to save me, no one is going to come together and hold me up.
But in reality is that what happens? Does anyone actually come and save you? How many times have you seen that in practical life? How many times in practical life do you see the group holding you up? Indeed if you're held up in the group there will be others in the group wanting to pull you down. So the idea of being sheltered in something that is not based in yourself sounds good in theory, in practice (instead it's) not so good.
5
Time 36:35
Now this creates some implications. Here's a couple: If I am really connected with my individual responsibility as a spiritual being for my spiritual life, I see myself in relation to others differently. My entrance into a group action, or group association, is my choice. If I no longer wish to do it, it's my choice to walk away. I know who I am, so I don't need someone else, or some group of someone elses, to define me.
If you don't define yourself, others will rush in to define you, and than you will be overwhelmed with this false identification that you have to deal with. It is very important that we are very secure in our own identification of self.
So how do we deal with all this little things in life that we're adapting to? The best methodology is to accept them. This is who I am, I have limited strength, I have limited capacity. Okay, I don't hear so good or whatever, whatever it might be that I'm limited in, I just accept it. What I am is not required to be confirmed, or amplified, or applauded by others. I am not requiring their praise, and I am not becoming destroyed by their criticism. Because on this journey of spiritual practices, on this journey to the spiritual realms, in this journey to the connection to the divine and all of its wonderful aspects, is an individual one. Yes, it's individual entirely.
Others may be there to offer some assistance, yes. But the spiritual feelings I attain are mine alone, the connections I make with the divine are mine alone. When I leave this body it's my journey alone, and where I end up is my journey alone. In brief it's my consciousness, my individuality, with all of its qualities and characteristics, that are carrying me along this journey.
And if we see others who are offering us assistance we can be grateful, we can embrace that offering, but from the point of view of understanding, the primary focus is the individual and the group is secondary. In other words my identity is not dependent on their definition. (Maha asks: Is not dependent from the? Hari: From their definition of me.)
Now that has many implications to it. That, if you choose to work together with others, it's because they and you have a similar understanding of things, a similar desire. It's kind of like when there's a sports team that works together really, really well, because they all have the same energy, the same desire, they have the same purpose and goal, right there on the spot and it's not deviation. Each individual is strong and empowered and works for the sake of the team, so that they can win. But that only works because each and everyone of them is a strong, independent individual who chooses to work with others.
6
Time 45:46
You know, I know, that without some kind of organization, without some kind of structure, without some kind of system by which everybody can integrate within the spirituality, it becomes very hard for it to develop. And so far I haven't seen any that does that properly. And I think that's because this incredibly important pillar of all social existence, the individual, is not established in that full strength and personal responsibility. Instead we have the situation of forced conformity, of rules and regulations, restrictions and one must be like this.
So sure, maybe we can do it differently. But theory, social theory is not enough. Just being able to talk about it, just being able to explain this is the way to do it, doesn't mean it's going to happen that way. After all I am a realist. But that doesn't mean it's impossible. And it is much easier when the groups are smaller. If there's a smaller group which is together based on the superiority of the individual, each and every individual, who chooses to work together within that group, there's a much greater chance that it will be successful.
I always used to like very much Bhaktivinoda Thakor's ideas about Nama Hatta because it was very much based in the home, in the family, in the individuals of small groups localized everywhere. It's actually genius if you think about it. Bhaktivinoda Thakor in my opinion he really understood people, he really understood social interactions better than anyone. And you can know for sure he was thinking about this points. It's not like I come up with them, I'm original here.
You know for sure he was thinking about this points. Because he was a magistrate, he used to hear cases, he used to mediate disputes, he used to enforce different kinds of codes and laws. He used to see how people argue, he used to see the conflicts right in front of him, he understood very well the nature of people and how they interacted in a situation of dispute. Therefore his system is the one which has the greatest possibility to avoid large scale disputes like that. And almost all this disputes revolve around money and possessions. And so in his Nama Hatta concept money and possessions were not an issue, it was very local.
People got together in each of their homes or they had in their village a small meeting place which they all contributed to. They didn't require lots of money making to support that, or big projects to support that. Very peaceful, very familial interactions within the village environment. So he had, he understood the nature of people, he understood the nature of the social fabric and he created something which was just perfectly suited to carry us through the journey of spiritual life in the easiest way. Everyone in that localized group was part of an organic situation. They grew up there, or they live there, or they work there, it was organic, they had relationships outside of their spiritual cooperation.
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I must admit when I was starting to talk about community, many years ago, I did not have it fully developed. I remember when my eyes opened really wide, it was in Kamalamala's apartment and we were having dinner together, and we were all talking there at the table about how to creat community. And I was all 'gong ho' and full of enthusiasm to make community. And than I heard like: "But why would I want to live in a community with this one over here when I don't trust, or even know, this one over here?" And than I heard: "I have an okay situation now, why should I give up my okay situation now to depend on whether or not that one over there is going to do what he is supposed to do?" And than I realized: "Oh my god, I got it all wrong!" Okay I admit I got depressed. "Oh my god, did I screw that up big time!"
But than I was thinking that, you know, this whole idea of everybody stoping what you're doing and coming together into something else, is a very modern invention, even in spirituality. It's recent, it's a twenties' century creation. And Bhaktivinoda, he knew this things. It's not like he didn't think of making a temple and having people move into it, it's not like he couldn't think of it, he was brilliant. But he had experience, he was a magistrate, he was a practical person, he knew exactly what would happen.
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So he was concentrating on the idea of this organic association - wherever you are. No pressure on the individual to achieve; no pressure on the individual to accomplish; no pressure on the individual to contribute; no pressure on the individual to even work; no pressure on the individual for the sake of a group.
They get together, they're all in the same area, they walk wherever they're walking or however it takes to get in this local area, they chant, they associate spiritually, they make their connections - it works. Because there's no pressure on the individual, no stress - stress in spiritual life are anathema.
And because of that we need a way to continue our spiritual journey without that group stress. But we need group, we need friends, we need association. We are social beings, we require society. Okay, I'm not saying I had the solution, it's I'm just relating an example. It doesn't even have to be with like Hare Krishna people.
I lived in this ecological community in Oxio, in Sweden, and we had meetings in our house of (with) neighbors. And the only thing we had in our minds was, we wanted to get together and creat a peaceful, spiritual atmosphere. My deities were there, we had some nice food, some nice music in the background, some bhajans sneaking in and things like that. And what I've seen is when people are given the opportunity to just contribute in a spiritual manner and allow things to flow, things naturally flow towards Radha and Krishna - I mean maybe far away - but still flowing in the right direction.
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And our group became very close and very tight. Even when we moved from there they would keeping contact, they were very touched by the spiritual atmosphere we created. I am not saying you have to do this! I am simply talking about it as a subject, because it was on my mind. The importance of the individual as opposed to the importance of a group was on my mind, and how we can make this spiritual life work.
So I admit this was not the best talk, and probably it was totally boring. And you wanted to hear about Radha and Krishna and how we can make connections and all that stuff - I get it. But all I got is what I got. And if this is where my mind is at, this is what comes out of the mouth. So sorry about that.
So if you like to discuss this topic or hey, you can talk about anything you want. If you want putting questions, I'm fine with that, you can put it in the chat.
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