Harimedia Forum

Hi Hari,

I have a question. In Bhagavad Gita I am reading ‘In the beginning the Lord of all beings, creating men along with the sacrifice, said: ’By this shell you prosper, this shell be the cow of plenty granting all your wants. By this please the gods, and gods will support you. Thus nourishing one another may you obtain the highest good. The gods, pleased by the sacrifice, will bestow on you the enjoyments you desire. He, who enjoys the bounty of the gods without giving them anything in return, is but a thief. Pious men who eat the remnants of sacrifice are freed from all sins. But the sinful ones who cook only for their own sake earn only sin. From food arise all beings, from rain food is produced, from sacrifice comes rain, and sacrifice springs from activity’. (BG 3.10 – 3.14)

So, now, in the reality, we can see that people are having born, rains are going regular, and grains are ripening even in the places where people do not heard what the sacrifice is. And all these indicate that devas are satisfied, but what is the means of their satisfaction? What a sacrifice is performing? What Krishna mean while saying these words about yajna?

And about thieves. The thief is one who has taken, without permission, thing belongs to another and uses it as his own. Are devas idiots? People enjoy the life, getting wealth and prosper without even be thankful to the gods, what to say they do not perform yajna, and gods are giving them more and more pleasures. But according to the Gita these people are thieves and sinners. But world is working properly. What is wrong then? Why gods allow thieves to use stolen things? May be they are not thieves and sacrificial activity is having place on the unconscious level of energetic reciprocation between men and gods? Could you explain the purport of the sacrifice Krisna saying about? And what place the fire yajna has in sacrificial activity?

Although I understand the logic in your question, I disagree with your premise and your conclusion. If your premise is that the world is going on properly, or even worse, that things are fine, then we must be reading different news reports. As far as I can see from my limited perspective, humanity has managed to create an environmental disaster unparalleled in the history of the world. Maybe we can do something to revert the coming consequences, but due to greed, ignorance, political intrigue, and a general lack of concern for the future generations, the world in 80-100 years will be so different than it is now that we would consider it unlivable by today's standards. The crisis of misplaced people, the long lasting and deepening effects of downturning economy, the wars, the continual stress that plagues humanity, and the inability to make it better points to a conclusion that nothing is working properly and nothing good will come. The water shortage will increase to the point where drinking water will be the number one valuable resource. I do not need to go on and on, research a little to draw your own conclusions.

Did you think that when we stopped caring about the facility given us by higher authorities that everything would end in a flash of light? The downfall is gradual, accelerating over time, and seemingly inescapable without some serious changes in how people view this world and their place in it.

They say that a rising tide raises all ships. When the tide goes out, all ships fall with it, even the rich, famous, and powerful. Considering this, I conclude that things are going "properly" because this human disregard is causing disaster.

But did you notice that all disasters are falling down on the heads of innocent people who constitute major population on the Earth and pushed to follow certain ideology, often forcedly instilled by different means. And mass media is one of them; I would say it is the main means. Bad news blows up stress, get disturbance and creates polarization in people’s minds, people become aggressive. Serials make people stupid and instill them low values or put them into illusion of tale. Alternation of opposite information is amplifying stress. But those who organize all this disorder are only a group of few people who have real power to control. So, all disasters are organized by only few people who want to establish dominance one over another. When they do it on the level of countries, religions and nationalities we have global disorder. But where these people got their power from to control the entire word? Who and why gave them this power?

But you are right, people are becoming worth, but I think this mainly is a reaction on the policy conducted by governments and values established in society on the base of this policy.

When I said that world is working properly, I mean that global equilibrium between happiness and distress or bed and good is maintained in proper proportion and people are getting desirable results according of their efforts in spite of all “strange” things happening in the world.

Frankly I do not believe in global collapse – environmental or economical or demographical. And the base of this my view is that on the all period of existence of humanity there were regular wars and exploitation of nature, often even more barbarous than nowadays. Existing of the great demons in the past proofs it. In Bhagavatam is described when Narada travelled he saw big mines and quarries where metals were digging out. The Kuruksetra war, when nuclear weapon was used. And bondage was wide spread in that time all over the world. And it was a vedic period when vedic sacrifices were performed regulary! What new we have now? Events have quality to repeat. Was there any even short period of time in the world without war or suffering of the people?
Of course, until recently, people carelessly exploit the nature. But now, after serial big ecological incidents, they become more careful towards the sources they use.

If we take as premise that souls come into this world by their own desire, then all what is happening in the world is for satisfy their desire. Of course if they want to make this world better they have all facilities for doing it too, but they have to be ready to meet a big resistance.

And on this background many wonderful things appear. Child getting birth, people getting married and display great love and care and support of each other. Government tries to take care for citizens by paying pension and other social subsidies, organizes asylums, hospices, clinics. Cities are becoming more clean and comfortable. New technologies appear which make our life more ease and safe. Modern plants are much safer for environment. Development of the science is fascinating. Oil as fuel will lose its importance soon for alternative electric systems appears. And if we accept logarithmical development of civilization then we will meet a big jump soon. But interesting feature I have noticed – time, spent on job is not changing as dramatically as technologies change (but I heard that in EU they want to establish 4-day working week).

The paradox is that even “bad” people have right to be happy and are becoming happy. And the state of happiness is not depends of the means it reached by or the state of the individual. And even means as they are is neutral by its nature. Only our relation to it based on the culture and convictions has meaning and creates our reaction to see or even feel good or bad. Man may be very poor, sick an exhausted but happy if, for example, he heard good news.

And on this background I want to return to the question about the sacrifice mentioned by Krishna in Gita. What kind of sacrifice He means? Did He mean that people, for obtain things, have to sacrifice something what is dear to them, like their time, efforts, energy or desires in form of labor or suffer or penance – physical, mental, emotional etc.? And being satisfied, gods in form of phenomena of this world like wealth, power, knowledge, etc. will come to the aspirant? And then, in change, he cares about the source and thus cycle of reciprocation repeats again and again.

They say that a rising tide raises all ships. When the tide goes out, all ships fall with it, even the rich, famous, and powerful.

But wise man use tide to rise his ship up from the bank and go to the sea for happy voyage!

Ecological degredation falls "down on the heads" of everyone. You try to build your argument on the back of the suffering masses and then you contradict your argument in your 6th paragraph by stating how things are better for everyone. I say that there is good and bad for all people. Some may have more money or power than others, but this does not insure that they are happier, healthier, or live more peacefully. You also acknowledge this. If you want to hear more of what I think about why good things happen to bad people, please listen to the lecture I gave on this topic (which is appropriately named!)

I addressed your question about sacrifice relating to the devas in my last text -- perhaps not obviously enough. The devas regulate nature and the interaction of things and living beings. When one acts within the natural characteristic of this divine energy, making choices that support the existing infrastructure, one is acting in union with the devas. Acting in union with the natural laws creates harmony and good results, whereas acting against these laws creates disharmony and a breakdown of our support systems. "Sacrifice" can be seen as setting aside one's propensity to exploit resources to learn the disciplne of living with the awareness to care for the gifts given us.

Thank you Hari for the useful explanation. It turns out that “sacrifice” or “sacrificial activity” means we share with devas (or any other beings) care, control and usage of resources we mutually have since we are also responsible for what we use. And in this manner we can reveal our divine nature and become happy. If we do not want to care about what we use we reap fruits of our irresponsibility. So, “care” here is a key word.

Dear Hari
But along with sharing with Devas care control and usage of resourses ,shouldnt we at least recognise them and honor them from There
great job,?

Sure!