Harimedia Forum

Hi everybody,
here I want to share and discuss some of my ideas and visions which appear in my mind from time to time.
Here is my vision of oneness and difference. It concerns me, my body, others and God. Also here are some thoughts about our being and evolution.

My premise is that God only exits or all existence is God. I use word “God” very reluctantly because it has covered with variety of very silly interpretations given by people.
Mostly all of existing religions instill in us the idea that God is up there and we are down here with all ensuing consequences. But there is a very good and more appropriate idea that we by our essence are on the same level with God. An interesting image appears when I expand this statement on other levels of our existence. I used the concept of Viratrupa in my contemplation.

Let us suppose that I am a complex structure, but for convenience we can designate five layers of my being. They are not kind of envelops or layers which wrap me, but this is me on different vibratory and qualitative levels of my being, and these layers are overlapping smoothly from one to another starting from very essence of me. Good example of this is kiwi fruit which tastes differently depending of its depth. Qualitative component defines me what I am, but vibratory component defines my perception, a degree of my awareness.

I describe these layers very briefly as follows: First level is our “gross” body and “gross” world around us. It is gross by the quality, it defines external forms and how we and other objects look like. We, by using our bodily sense organs, are continuously having contact with outward objects and with each other. We share this same level with other and with God. So, on this level we are one with each other and one with the complete whole i.e. God.

Second is the mind layer. Here we create our thoughts and mental constructions. On this layer we are living in mental sphere which is also shared with God and other beings. On this level we are also able to quite easily establish contact with God via imagination and visualization process. Logic is also on this level. And since this level is part of God’s body and of our body we are one on this level too.

Third is emotional layer. Here live objects of our emotional aspirations. These are our qualities and how we evaluate them, ourselves and others. Our self-esteem is here too. Our feelings and worries are also here. On this level we can share our emotions with God and others either in meditation or in real life. I often use it to go deeper in meditation. Through this part of us we are able to be fascinated with nature, other people, entities, devas and God. And since this is also part of God’s body and of our body we are one on this level too.

Forth is the layer of awareness or intelligence. Here exist our realizations. This is a level on which the principle of process of relationship exists. Awareness allows us to be what we are now. And this level gives us ability to discriminate, so we can see things separately from each other. On this level we realize that there is me, God and others. And since this is also part of God’s body and of our body we are one on this level too.

Fifth is the layer of essence. This is our pure being, the ultimate state of being. On this level we are by our nature one with God and other beings.

So, on all levels we are sharing our body, our being with those of God. On all levels we are part of God. On all levels we are one with God and with each other.

Yet at the same time all of us are different from each other. It is obvious that we are different for all of us are personalities with our own unique features, who exist separately and have interactions with each other. God is also personality like us. The difference between God and human (or any other living being) is that God is the whole, who has manifested us as His parts. Being His parts we are not separate from Him. We are ever irrevocably connected with Him. It is similar to stalactites in cave or a body and its limbs. It is impossible for the parts to exist separately for they ever have at list the cause-effect relation. Through this feature God has omniaware capacity. We don’t have it. The idea of merging with God or to become God means that you cease your existence as individual being. Therefore you can never say that you became God. Merging with God means that you are vanished. Also God has His own way to evolve but we always follow His way for we are parts and parcels of Him.
The idea that we are one by quality but different by quantity is silly. Quantity may define material opulence but not define God. I think quality is namely what defines the difference. The quality we share with God unifies us, the unique qualities (some of which mentioned above) which only God possesses make Him different from us.

Now, concerning the vibratory levels. Vibrations define level of being. We are aware of our existence in the world which has frequency of vibration corresponding to our desires. Our being is always in resonance with the world we live in. So, I am very complex, versatile, multilevel structure who finally appears as a body of a certain form in respective world. My complex body is me who contains all this above mentioned layers which permeate each other and I have vibrations according with my desires and am finding myself in the world resonating with me now. The world around us appears in forms which we are most capable to perceive. God also appears in His integrated, personal and other forms on the level on which we are able to naturally communicate with Him.

How to change the level of being if we are not satisfied with it? Experience shows that it is not easy for us to change the level of being. Let us look at our life as if it is a scanner of the levels of being: where the scanner stops – there we are living now. It is interesting who is moving this scanner? I think it is our desires, the great mass of desires. Where they find resonance, that level of being appears brighter. And it is difficult to move anywhere from this level as it is difficult to stop swinging swings. But we are more complex than swings or pendulum. To continue this analogy we need to imagine a pendulum consisting of chain of weights and each weight is few times smaller than the previous one. So we have oscillating finite chain (me) consisting of infinite number of weights (desires). And there is also initial impetus – God’s will for us to be. Such pendulum has very complex set of oscillations, but it has particular range of resonance. By dropping or adding (getting rid or acquire) weights (desires) we are changing length and therefore frequency of pendulum. This is an infinite process for we discover newer and newer more subtle desires until the system is in motion. Thus we somehow slide along the space of being. Oscillations of pendulum are possible because of gravitation. Gravitation appears due to interaction of two bodies. The system is sustained due to feedback or reciprocation. Thus, the original impetus, motion, attraction and reciprocation are crucial points of existence.

All above said means that we are good enough for the place where we are now! And we form our body, mind etc. on every vibratory level of being. If we are not satisfied with our life then we should do something to move to another place. According to the model shown above in order to change our position up or down we should somehow change weights-desires. The word “somehow” means variety of ways.

Can we call the process of going up as evolution and the process of going down as degradation? I think it very much depends on our desires. If we feel fine where we are then it is a perfect state. If we do not feel like this it means that there is tension. Tension appears when there is difference of potentials which means that we are somehow aware of another level of being. Tension also means reaction on applied force when we have resistance to motion. Force appears when there is gravitation. When we remove resistance then motion appears and tension ceases. What is this resistance which hampers us in moving along the space of being? I think, it is our attachment to our status quo and fear. Desire and resistance are two different and very interesting categories.

To be continued.
Comments are welcome!

There seems to me to be a contradiction in what you seem to make us understand.

You start your writing by stating: "My premise is that God only exists or all existence is God." At the same time you write that: "On all levels - we - are part of God." So who are "we" than, Drpta, if all that exists is a seeming different entity from that of us? Or in other words - just - God. Is our own, our seemingly separate or distinct existence just an ilusion?

You don´t have to answer that, Drpta, since I understand this question more as a rhetorical question. But from the logical point of view it might be necessary to find a convincing answer to this question.

If just God exists and we are all just an integral part of that entity, than God would feel a certain lack in itself if we would consciously deny its existence and also not cooperate with that entity. In other words God would experience a missing part and would feel incomplete.

On the other hand can an entity like that, or such an incomplete or imperfect "God" be of any value for the creation of this manifested world? If that entity would have to depend always on "us" or its seemingly fragmented parts in order to be or experience completeness than its capacity to act would be strictly limited.

What would be the use of such a God?! Again just a rethorical question. You see that to just say that all that exists is God and we are therefore also ... would be a little to easy.

I cannot find any contradiction here. God is very complex. And since He exists then all His parts are also exist. Some of His parts are we, which have conscious existence. Our existence depends from His existence for we exist as if in Him. There are many other parts of God’s body besides us. Worlds, forces, energies and many other things we are not aware. All of these taken together are God. Everything exists in Him as His parts. Therefore when we look at this globally, as at complete whole, we can say that only God is one who exists. It does not mean that you are God or can become God!

Our difference does not seeming, it is real. All what we see around us is real and our feeling of separation is real too because physically we are separate from each other. Also we have one’s own consciousness which allow us to be individuals. But in global sense we are one whole.

I do not know what God feel when we deny Him or how at all He feels us. But I think it is more interesting and useful to ascertain how we feel God.

Does God depend from anything? Dependence defines by outward factors (God’s inward factors depend just from Him). Do God have outward factors if only He one exists? The question is senseless.

In this connection it is interesting what Krishna tells Arjuna in the Bhagavad gita: "Although I am the maintainer of all living entities and although I am everywhere, I am not a part of this cosmic manifestation, for my self is the very source of creation." In other words it seems to be so that God, although a creator of this physical world is not really it. God resides rather in another sphere not yet known to us by our direct experience.

Krishna goes on saying to Arjuna: "By me, in my unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in me, but I am not in them."

You write: "Some of His parts are we, which have conscious existence. Our existence depends from His existence for we exist as if in Him."

A logic argument regarding this one finds in the Gita:
"Understand that as the mighty wind, blowing everywhere, rests always in the sky, all created beings rest in Me."

You write about the importance of feeling God, whatever you mean by that. I personally could until now just experience God in my daily activities from the past, especially the time I engaged myself full time in spreading his glory and making him known to others. And this experience of God is something which upon mature reflection I considered to have been real, since in the way something happened I consider - in retrospect - that God must have had his hand in there. In some way he must have been involved by creating the favorable circumstances for what happenned back than, otherwise it couldnt have happened in the way it did. That is at least my understanding by looking back at something in my life.

Thus from my experience I "feel" that one can come to know and realise God, Radha - Krishna, or whatever particular distinguishing name you like to call that Supreme and transcendental entity, just in retrospect, and in the way you came to know and become aware of his apparent involvement in your past activities and services, performed with pleasing that supreme Being in mind. Feeling via sensory means I did never experience in relation or in the apparent presence respectivelly apparent involvement of God in one way or the other.

How was, or is it, in your life, Drpta, how did you came to know, become aware, or "feel" the presence and apparent involvement of God in your present or past activities/services ?

I think that it is not the best approach when one tries to divide God into unmanifested form, manifested form and His personality. Of course it is possible to do for some kind of analysis, but it does not mean that these parts have separate existence. God exists as complete whole. He is aware of all His “aspects” equally, and all these aspects exist simultaneously and permeate each other. It is impossible to say that His unmanifested aspect is here but his personality is there. He is undividable and He is one with His creation.

Yes, you right, it is cool to see God’s hand in what is happening. You know, when you mentioned the sensory means I have caught a thought that there is a special kind of feeling when you feel that somebody is watching you or walking behind you. It is a kind of subtle feeling. And my experience of God is happening mainly on this kind of level. I namely feel presence of divine energy which pervaded everywhere around me. This energy spiritualizes every object, every thing I see. It permeates all my existence. And via this energy I feel presence God everywhere. You may ask me why I think that by this I am feeling God? It is because there is nothing but God. And therefore lately I more often look at world around me as divine. And there is also special feeling of perceiving personal energy which goes from Deities.

It seems to me that your understanding about God is that of him/her being just that what seemingly exists as an "energy" or force which permeates everything everywhere, but not really also someone who is also somewhere in particular. Like for example that entity who exists in person also in a transcendental spiritual place beyond birth and death.

Can one really restrict or limit that transcendental entity, God, which is the very source of everyone of us, as well as of everything in that cosmic manifestation, in such a way? Personally I doubt it.

My understanding of oneness is to be - at one with - something or someone in particular. The defference between one understanding of oneness is that in one there is a variety and pluralism involved, and also fully posible being united or at one with by common interests of vision, affection, sympathy, "energy", etc. while in the other the number one is the criterion for everything and everywhere. You seem to prefer the number version of oneness and not that of two or more of Us as being at one with, or united by love, affection and common interests.

Drpta wrote:It is impossible to say that His unmanifested aspect is here but his personality is there. He is undividable and He is one with His creation.

There is some truth in that. Indeed if we presume that God is «spirit» and if we out of logical considerations proceed from the world view accepted by people who believe in a transcendental and allpowerful God, then the only possible answer is that God before he was starting creation and before the origin of space and time must have dwelled in a different, unmanifested universe in which neither space nor time has any significance and which is unimaginable for our «limited» possibilities.

The German astronomer, Peter v. d. Osten-Sacken in his book „The New Cosmology“ - Astronomers in Search of the Reality of our World - arrives at the following conclusion regarding these questions:

«Let us yet observe another issue. Does an intrinsic non-material sphere exist or can we ultimately attribute everything to physical and chemical processes?... It is not easy to imagine a process without a cause and therefore it is searched for in the spiritual. But if a spiritual sphere exists - substantiated by other criteria - it is not only possible but even likely that in it lies the origin of the universe. Let us view this more concretely: Supposing the universe originated at one point in time and an intrinsic spiritual sphere exists, the origin of this creation could be something unimaginable, different, non-material: many religions describe this as „divine“.

By saying this I also wanted to say that all aspects of God exist simultaneously in any given place of creation. It means that personality of God also ever exists in or permeates every element in this world and we can establish contact with Him through any object around us. An interesting proof of this statement I have lately suddenly found in the “Madhva-vijaya” book. At one place this book describes how Mahvacarya once started to worship to things and people around him because he has seen God in everything that was around him.

I think that Lord is having localized appearance or embodiment in any particular form because of His desire to reveal His special personal relationships with the entities which have desire to reciprocate with Him in such manner. These entities are getting together according to their interests and through this process a variety of religions appears. Therefore by this criterion we can test the truthfulness of religion. True religions have complete enough understanding of God so He assumed a form adored by followers of a particular religion. The knowledge about this form comes either directly from this very form, who is appearing before His worshipper or through revelation. The proof of reality of the form of God for common people is matter of faith but for spiritually awakened and aware people it is a matter of their experience and direct perception. The direct perception in this regard means that I feel, I know and I sure that I have contact namely with God. It is obvious like when you communicate with a living man.