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Kamalamala wrote:

By your logic one should not even for example call demons demons since they can feel uncomfortable, please have a look into the wellknown scriptures they are opposite. Or one should not call (them) this or that since they can feel offended.

...and I thought that Hari in his lectures can give one some higher knowledge which may help to develop a higher, a more all embracing understanding of spirituality and life, and helps one to 'express' ones thoughts and understanding of things with more style and free of any preconceived judgement. I guess I was mistaken.

Kamalamala's logic continues...
"We are living in a free society...express ourself" "...get benefit.." "...figure out the best truth..." "...one should not fear to express oneself... "it is good..."

"Lets say there are the societies of fascists ...I should appreciate their freedom and ... not desturb them?" (did I really meant that?!) "Prabhupad (is) valuating all societies.. "Why... allow Prabhupad to speak harshly and... don't allow me to say what I think..." "...for me it is OK..."

"This forum is not only for Hare Krishna's (anyone here still a Hare Krishna? ) but for all people... "...Lenin and Stalin..." "Just remember where truth is there is GOD."

I see
You trying your best to twist and devaluate wath i wrote bravo .
The same was doing so called gurus in 1998.And KGB as well.
It seem you didnt understand my text .
So here is again my text.
Try again

In this forum we was dicussing the sects you asked me why i call them sects and i explained,it is you who understand that wath i wrote is bad names for me it is just truth, and if one sayes the truth and it sounds bad for somebody it is not the problem of one who sayes,one cannot satisfy everybody.
Let say there are the society of fashists and you are asking me why i dont like them then following your logic i should appreciate there freedom and say something that will not desturb them?
By the way in the books of Prabhupad, Prabhupad valuating all the societyes giving them different names just remember how havvy he was on poor impersanolists on Buddists on so called Karmis on so called Sahajiyas and many others,for me it issome time ok since i know sometime the reasons but sometime not as well i know my reasons,, but can you have enaf courage and ask him why he is doing that you cannot since you are full of fear.Why you in yourself alow Prabhupad to speak harshly on different groups and cannot accept my arguments it mean that you just affraid .
By the way in many wayes [excluding the goals, althought by the waythis two dimons, Lenins and Stalins declared goals wasnt bad they at least declared that people should be all happy] this is reminding Stalin times when all have to gloryfy Him and if one didnt they killed him the same sect by metodology.And there was the Stalins warshipers who was pointing there fingures to ones who wasnt warship Stalin.
.By your logic one should not evenfor examle call demons demons since they can feel uncomfortable ,please have look into the wellknown scriptures theyfilled with oposit examles.Or one should not call thieths thieths since they can feel offended.
Your logic ilogical.

We are living in free society and it is good since we can all express ourselfs and in that prosses can figure out the best truth for everybody.
This forum is mayed not for only Hare Krisnas but for all people
and one should not fear to express oneself just because Hare Krisnas will feel uncomfortable , and by the way if so then who knows maybe it is good for them maybe there minds will become more active and they will get benefit more from the crisisim that
from glorification,are you sure that it is not like that?Maybe some of there gurus will stop cheat themselfs and others,by the way some of them before becoming gurus was realy good people.
Just remember where is truth there is GOD.

However
If a person is realy want to help people i mean realy feel that
people need knowlage and he can give ,he should go and teach
and God and Gods will support him deffinatly,no need to make a cult from himself no need to get a warship, people will appreciate him realy if he is helping , people are generaly very very graitful.He even
not nessesary should have mistical capacityes.And more then that he doesnt need to be authorised by anybody or any group/.
See how nice it is .

One not making people dependent on him they are free in all ways and he doesnt depend on them also[as so called gurus depend on the bunch of ther desciples], he just giving knowlage,and if he can teach more let him teach more why he should need the strange titles.
You know the best teacher is one who are making people independent not the one who makes them dependent.
Even if one doesnt have mistyc capasityes he can help people a lot .
But if one have mistic capacitys he can help in mistycal way too.
See how is all very simple and good.
Now look at Hari he is doing exactly wath i wrote above,he doesnt need titles he is mistyc and he helps people without beeing dependant on them, and he making evryone independant from him for
there real growth since the real growth begins when one taking full
responcibility for his life in general ,both his spiuritual and so called material life. And he helps people when they aproach him is nt it much better then the kingergurden looking relationships between so called Gurus and desciples.?

By the way here is some teckniks to make people realy dependant
you should say evrybody that you are perfect and they are inperfect you are saint and they are sinner ,you are pure and they are poluted,you are clever they are stupid,you are libarated they are conditioned ,you are the only hope for them,
and no even need to say it directly you can say it by hints or in the therd name using scriptures,and by this you can make forever dependent on you, and if you want to make people more dependent then you are saying that there are 10 offences and the one of them is considering you ordinary man,and they should chant this offences evryday in the morning to not forget it.
This is doing and was doing the sects and religions for centuryes.


But when you say to people that you are as better as me you are as clever as i you are as pure as me and so on people will appreciate you and even love you but not will be dependant but will realy evolve on ther way of evolution..
See the differense and see who is doing wath.

Demonstration of members of the NPD party in Berlin.




- People demonstrating in front of the German Parliament (Reichstag) for a ban by the state authorities of the National Democratic (somehow neo-fascist) party NPD. (has about 10.000 members in Germany). A few years ago the government tried to stopp their activities and ban their party but the German Constitutional Court stopped the German Government. The free expression and right to demonstrate for ones convictions is a constitutional law which should be protected by the state in a democracy was the order by the judge.

Afcourse only sects leaders can have there opinion since they are super perfect in all wayes is nt it who are other people to have there own independant opinion ecspesialy if it is not fitting the sects leaders writings since this writings is super super super ,if it hapened that you dont like something in them you are totaly in maya is nt it.
You will go to hell because of that is nt it.
The sects tend to idealise there Gurus ,and i will not be amaised if one day they declare that the sun is shining because of there guru,and the winds is blowing because of him and at the end that he is a god himself as Cristianity does by the way buddism is the best religion in this reagrd and even Muslims is better in this regard since Mohamed never teach people to warship him he teached people to warship God/.

By the way here is some teckniks to make people realy dependant
you should say evrybody that you are perfect and they are inperfect you are saint and they are sinner ,you are pure and they are poluted,you are clever they are stupid,you are libarated they are conditioned ,you are the only hope for them,
and no even need to say it directly you can say it by hints or in the therd name using scriptures,and by this you can make forever dependent on you, and if you want to make people more dependent then you are saying that there are 10 offences and the one of them is considering you ordinary man,and they should chant this offences evryday in the morning to not forget it.
This is doing and was doing the sects and religions for centuryes.


But when you say to people that you are as better as me you are as clever as i you are as pure as me and so on people will appreciate you and even love you but not will be dependant but will realy evolve on ther way of evolution..
See the differense and see who is doing wath.

next step for making realydependent one should make so that the guyes whould evrymorning in 4 a clock chant the praise of his guru,and then the most important to make them all feel very guilthy
one should use the most powerful force in this universe the secsual inpulse he should tell evrybody that if they get the secsual imulse they are guilthy and sinful and if they want to have sex with there wifes they should get the permision of there gurus[,by the way it is writen in Prabhupads books].I think this is even wasnt in the metodology of Stalin.No coment
after making evrybody subordinent and comlitly dependent one should make sure that they live so called simple life ,they should not have proparties since it is maya better to not have childrenes and familyes, they should accumulate the knowlage and the essense of that knowlage is to sacrifice your own life to your guru
become his slave and warship him in other wards one should become his zombie and make others also zombie under the name of devotional service..
And one more important point they should make others also slaves of his guru.It is like mlm.And if one happened to opose to be anymore zombie the guru should kick him out and make so that all other zombies also hate him.
Then after geting so many zombies one can feel comfortable and think that he is so great ,no problem that the rest of the warld care less about him he have a bunch of zombies who are glorifying him and serving isnt it the goal of life making him feel as a God amongst Zombies thepeople who have no independant opinion. .

By the way thank you very much that forced me write all this text.

It was my pleasure, Kamalamalaji, especially I liked your expression in regard to me "...you are a c... zo... It amused me a lot. My wife told me afterworlds that at least someone characterized me how and what I really am... I am not really trying my best to twist and devaluate what you wrote I am rather trying my best to give our readers also an understanding which lies beyond words. We are writing here in a public forum where we somehow must be more careful how we may express in words our feelings and our understanding in regard to the various topics under discussion. I guess when we would talk to each other face to face we would understand us very well and what we may want to express with our words and feelings. In a direct conversation one speaks also through ones face expressions and through ones body language. Something which is not possible in this online conversations or at least somehow more limited.

Sorry if i somehow made you feel not good,but i was writing to my
hipotetical oponent mainly [gurus] i know that if you are hearing Haris lectures you alwready quite independant person.
Realy i dont like them as the guru role holders as a people without that role many i know very nice people.
I am sure that maybe some people at least will begin to think and if they begin there inside independant life it is the real begining of spiritual path ,this is afcourse my subjective opinion
Also i am sorry for many mistakes english is not my native language and to make me easy express myself i didnt think about the mistakes.
I also want to add that actualy i appreciate Prabhupad very much
for his increadible devotion andrevolutionary spirite and many other
qualityes
but it doesnt mean at all that i will agree with evrything he wrote or said ecspesialy if it will be used by his followers for there own glorification and exploatation and devaluation of peoples personality,i dont agree with his methodology ,but i can admit that many things he was doing and saying he did because of certain time .Actualy all his books was writen for moncks but was used also for householders and womens and childrens and that made a real caos.He did in his time increadible job but the price was very high.And iam realy not sure does his job warthy for that price since price wqas the lifes of thousand young peoples around the warld.Time will show.
I hope that he made cult of himself just for propagating his idea not because he likes it.
I realy hope so .
The organisations ecspesialy army kind ones based totaly on fear.
And he needs army.
I hate the idea that people cannot argue with anybody it is slavory
concept and very harmful .
I think that evrybody have capasity and rights to desriminate
and made there own right decicion not only so called great ones.
This is also based on slavory mentality and fear.More then that it is demoniac to think like that.

And deffenatly Lord Chaytanias theaching have less to do with present ISCON or any other sect,since his teaching is love and love is only there where there is no fear.
I personaly think that all this sects misrepresenting Lord
Chaytanya
and Radha and Krsna by many wayes.They are making more harm then benefit.And they are also harming people more then helping.
And also i want to add that Hari is doing realy great job to fix all this mistakes.And also i want to add that each one of us not less unique and not less important then Prabhupad or any other personality.

something more about wath is the sect.
Sect is an organisation wich teaches people to hATE THE LIFE,
TO HATE THE WOMANS AND CHILDRENS,TO HATE THE WARLD,
TO HATE YOUR OWN BODY,TO FEEL GUILTHY AND SINFUL,TO HATE
PARENTS AND RELATIVES,TO HATE PEOPLE SINCE THEY ARE NOT IN THE SECT, TO HATE OTHER SPIRITUAL WAYES,TO BECOME SLAVES,TO FILL SUBORDINENT AND INSIGNIFCIANT, TO MAKE SUPERFICIAL CULT FROM THERE LEADERS, TO BECOME IRRESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN LIFE,TO LOUSE YOUR CREATIVITY,TO LOUSE YOUR OWN DESCRIMINATIVE ABILITYES,
to CONSIDER THAT THERE GURUS MORE THEN DEMIGODS,TO DEMINISH DEMIGODS[see how sects treathing the folowers of Lord Shiva or mother Kali] ....... you can add yourself more.......

aND MOST AMAISING ,ADDING TO ALL THIS THE SECTS TRYING TO to do all this in the name of GOD and with such mind TRYING TO LOVE GOD, IS IT POSSIBLE?

Actually i was thinking and find out that you are rigth if people
happy in this kind of organisations itis mean that it is realy there
choise maybe they are getting there wath they want,and realy for
me no
dfference, i know my way and let everybody be happy.

A good thought indeed: "Let everybody be happy..." so he can really say to himself "I did it my way" » Frank Sinatra Music


• Links and Photos

• The Project Gutenberg EBook: Religions and Sects of India, By R.V. Russell (more) • Volume IV: Google books • Original book


"Smārta Sect.—This is an orthodox Hindu sect, the members of which are largely Brāhmans. The name is derived from Smriti or tradition, a name given to the Hindu sacred writings, with the exception of the Vedas, which last are regarded as a divine revelation. Members of the sect worship the five deities, Siva, Vishnu, Sūraj or the sun, Ganpati and Sakti, the divine principle of female energy corresponding to Siva. They say that their sect was founded by Shankar Achārya, the great Sivite reformer and opponent of Buddhism, but this appears to be incorrect. Shankar Achārya himself is said to have believed in one unseen God, who was the first cause and sole ruler of the universe; but he countenanced for the sake of the weaker brethren the worship of orthodox Hindu deities and of their idols." (more)








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• Guttenberg Ebook: India's Problem Krishna or Christ by John P. Jones, from 1903 • Columbia.edu: History and scriptures of India

• Ebook: Tribes and Castes of India • Web link / 2


Ch. 83. Taking food at initiation. "Again, the rite of initiation or investiture (the ceremonial act of clothing someone in the insignia of an office = WordNet) with the sacred thread appears to be the occasion of the admission of a boy to the caste community. Before this he is not really a member of the caste and may eat any kind of food. The initiation is called by the Brāhmans the second birth, and appears to be the birth of the soul or spirit. After it the boy will eat the sacrificial food at the caste feasts and be united with the members of the caste (a hereditary social class among Hindus; stratified according to ritual purity) and their god. The bodies of children (who died) who have not been initiated are buried and not burnt. The reason seems to be that their spirits will not go to the god nor be united with the ancestors, but will be born again. Formerly such children were often buried in the house or courtyard so that their spirits might be born again in the same family. The lower castes sometimes consider the rite of ear-piercing as the initiation and sometimes marriage. Among the Panwār Rājpūts a child is initiated when about two years old by being given cooked rice and milk to eat. The initiation cannot for some reason be performed by the natural father, but must be done by a guru or spiritual father, who should thereafter be regarded with a reverence equal to or even exceeding that paid to the natural father." (more)


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- "Naked holy men denying sexuality and feeling; elderly people basking in the warmth and security provided by devoted and attentive family members; fastidious priests concerned solely with rules of purity and minutiae of ritual practice; puritanical moralists concealing women and sexuality behind purdah's veils--these are familiar Western stereotypes of India...Drawing on rich ethnographic data from emotion-charged scenarios, these essays question Western academic theories of emotion, particularly those that reduce emotions to physiological sensations or to an individual's private feelings. (more)





• Religionfacts.com/hinduism/sects
• Univ. of Heidelberg Library: Religious Thought and Life in India: Vedism, Brahmanism, and Hinduism

• Divine Passions • Travels In India
• Sketches Of Social Life In India (1884)
• The Development of Hinduism
• Castes And Tribes Of Southern India-Vol V
• Tribes Of India: The Struggle For Survival
• Castes And Southern India Vol 6
• The Central Provinces of India,Vol-I.
• Race, Caste and Tribe in Central India: The Early Origins...
• A Tour In The Central Provinces Vol Ix
• Journey To The North Of India Vol -Ii
• A History Of Civilization In Ancient India • The Religious Quest of India
• The North-Western Provinces Of India • The Tribes and Castes of Bengal
• British Beginings In Western India 1569-1657 • More E-books - Caste system in india


The curious devas


• A Wisdom Archive on Major Sects Of Hinduism
- Saivism, Vaishnavism and Shaktism are considered to be the major sects of Hinduism. Followers of Saivism worship Lord Siva as their chief deity and regard him as Iswara, the Supreme Brahman. They wear a mark of three horizontal stripes on their foreheads. Followers of Vaishnavism worship Lord Vishnu as the Supreme Creator and wear a U shaped mark on the forehead with a long stripe between the two arms of U. The followers of Shakti consider the Mother Goddess as the Universal Self and creator of all. (more) • Google search: Hindu sects - http://home.comcast.net (more)

Sorry if i somehow made you feel not good,but i was writing to my
hipotetical oponent mainly [gurus] i know that if you are hearing Haris lectures you alwready quite independant person.
Realy i dont like them as the guru role holders as a people without that role many i know very nice people.
I am sure that maybe some people at least will begin to think and if they begin there inside independant life it is the real begining of spiritual path ,this is afcourse my subjective opinion
Also i am sorry for many mistakes english is not my native language and to make me easy express myself i didnt think about the mistakes.
I also want to add that actualy i appreciate Prabhupad very much
for his increadible devotion andrevolutionary spirite and many other
qualityes
but it doesnt mean at all that i will agree with evrything he wrote or said ecspesialy if it will be used by his followers for there own glorification and exploatation and devaluation of peoples personality,i dont agree with his methodology ,but i can admit that many things he was doing and saying he did because of certain time .Actualy all his books was writen for moncks but was used also for householders and womens and childrens and that made a real caos.He did in his time increadible job but the price was very high.And iam realy not sure does his job warthy for that price since price wqas the lifes of thousand young peoples around the warld.Time will show.
I hope that he made cult of himself just for propagating his idea not because he likes it.
I realy hope so .
The organisations ecspesialy army kind ones based totaly on fear.
And he needs army.
I hate the idea that people cannot argue with anybody it is slavory
concept and very harmful .
I think that evrybody have capasity and rights to desriminate
and made there own right decicion not only so called great ones.
This is also based on slavory mentality and fear.More then that it is demoniac to think like that.

And deffenatly Lord Chaytanias theaching have less to do with present ISCON or any other sect,since his teaching is love and love is only there where there is no fear.
I personaly think that all this sects misrepresenting Lord
Chaytanya
and Radha and Krsna by many wayes.They are making more harm then benefit.And they are also harming people more then helping.
And also i want to add that Hari is doing realy great job to fix all this mistakes.