Speaking of sects

[Nanda-grama]

I think this sistem cripples people. All people come to ISSCON with very pure motivation. People think about Radha-Krishna, they wish to develop themselves and to be better. Nobody comes in order to make money or to cature power. But this sistem is so organized, that people began to aspire to be best between others in order to feel simply respect to themselves. Because otherwise good prasad, good room, attention of women and respect of others will win somebody another.Because at the first there is the appeal to leave normal human conditions of life( for their spiritual use, undoubtedly),and then there is this deficit of good conditions and normal relationships . And most clever and talented people understand how they can take all it. But it happens parallely with sinsere wish to serve God. Man chants mantra,his mistical abilities grow, and he takes more possibilities to be " happy".(because simply to marry or to earn money -it is maya ). And then- when all people glorify you, you really can believe that you are most pure, most spiritual and etc. If somebody sales 500 books-all glorify him, or if somebody speaks good or etc.People lose their heads. It is idiotic sistem.
I remember that when I gone to vyasa-pudja of Hari (I overcame many difficulties in order to come to Almic) I was surprised by expression of Hari's face when people washed his feet. I sow that in his birthday he doesn't feel some joy. When people began to give to him their presents he smiled so diligently that I could not more to carry out it , I gave my present Hararata and gone out.
This sistem destroys natural flow of life and cripples people. But this people are very, very good.
I don't think that somebody of modern guru came to ISSCON for that anybody would wash his feet. He came in order to know God and to serve Him, and love Him. And now when somebody washs his feet he thinks that he serves God by such way. He thinks that he does all that he can do.Only full villain can know that he is unskilled and to continue to take somebody's service. I think that they consider themselves very skilled.
Hari sow absurdity of this sistem and gone out. Most likely they don't see it.
I didn't see it, and you, Kamalamala,didn't see it also. If Hari would not do what he did, we would be in ISSCON to our time.If we would feel bad in ISSCON, we would think that it is simply maya.

[kamalamala1]

yes there was good time and good people since many came for spiritual goals
ecspesialy when there was time when was only one Guru in ussr.
I remember how one of present gurus his name Niranjan when was asked to become guru told me that he feel that he have no abilityes and capacities
and he shyed to accept warship and so on but the CBc insits and now he well known accepter of warship.

But all the babyes also was good until they become older
Anyway sad storyes.
Frankly saying all this guru things realy turned to slaveholding sosiety.
They are trying to make the new slave holding sistems where ladyes and so called shudras are slaves and then coming all others and on the top of them gbc s and temple presidants as so called Ksatriyas and then so called funny brahman kinds and they concocted the 5th kasta the topmost the guru kings.And the vayshyas is the guests and all the people who are giving money for building there temples and whos money dissapearing in there managers pockets.
The slave holders
And all of this they are doing under the name of Lord Chaitania and there Lordships Radha and Krsna

[harsi]

I am reading right now this book by Barack Obama, actually a very good story-teller and writer. Therein he writes about all the struggle the black people had and sometimes still have in the USA. But in his book one can find no fingerpointing at someone else who may have another skin colour or another understanding of life. He lets the reader of course also know his own opinion, solution or version of past events but one always has the impression that here is writing a person who is not at all interested at making someone feel bad in some way or feel guilty for something but rather is interested to find some common ground wherefrom one can build a new and better relationship among all people it doesnt matter where they may came from, what skin colour they may have, what motivation or what belief or religion they may follow.

"Only in freedom and independance discurse (discussions) and controversy can unfold" Obama writes. He doesn't see any bad thing in this but emphasizes that discussions and controversies should also help one understand and learn something more positive, or in other words give us a hint how to make our world a better place for all of us and not only for a small fraction of people, whoever they may be.

I was reading also about the great struggle a black man had who became the first black mayor of Washington. A few weeks after he was elected the second time in this office he died all of a sudden. All the black community in Washington was shoked of this unexpected turn of events. But because they didnt had any official society which could somehow organize the continuation of the interests of the black people in Washington, all the time they were just focused on this one mayor as a person, in the new election wich followed the black community lost this important post again to the "white's" and the great lamenting begain...

[kamalamala1]

All this guru guyes is adult people ,i dont accept that they dont understand that they are exploiting peoples inner expectations and people in genral,and also it iis abvious that they are exploiting the idea of God as well.
They know that they dont have capacityes it is not so difficult to figure out.
Ecspesialy in 30 40 years .
As far about me i knew well in that time who is who , i never took seriosly all this guru guyes and made many revolutions against them even before Haris event.Since i couldnt tolarate there atitude.
As far about my leaving Iscon yes it is true as i wrote recantly in our conversation with Harshi

[Nanda-grama]

Kamalamala, I agree to you that now there isn't some necessary to take an initiation in order to take spiritual knowledge.And this institute of gure is not very actual presently. But I don't like the form of expression of your thought. " Fools, villains,swinders!"- where did I hear all it? May to continue:" donkeys, cats, gods..." It is very similar
Godness allows to be as meat-lovers as ISSCON's gurus. Meat-lovers are bad and good and gurus are also.
It is different experience, different roles.But essense of people doesn't depend on this roles.
Some people like to fight all the time as Don Kihot with mills. It is touchingly

[kamalamala1]

All the texts i wrote is here on this forum can you point me where i adressed to the so called gurus like that as you wrote?

I just adressing them as to ordinary people who are cheating themselfs and the others also thats all.
The whole idea is that this guyes is nothing spesial as they presenting themselfs and there followers presenting them, they as ordinary people as others sometimes they are warst then ordinary for different reasons.
The whole descusion was about sects and i personaly considering that this all guru thing is the hearth of the sects in there harmful meaning
that is why in context of this discussion i am stressing it so much .

[Nanda-grama]

It is similar in main point. Too categorically and generalizedly.

[kamalamala1]

Not at all in many cases it is to soft ,considering the harm that this poeople can do for there desciples and people.
Anyway iam writing wath iam feeling if somebody likes it it ok if not wath can i do it is my thoughts and we are all defferent and this is free forum.And i dont write to satisfy anybody i anm writing as i feel.
When all this guyes offending others it is ok with you.?
The whole idea in short is that there are no any gurus we are all ordinary people all ,and the ones who presenting them as very spesial are cheaters.

[Nanda-grama]

I respect your sincerity and conviction.
It was interestingly

really

[kamalamala1]

and franckly saying this guru thing is epidemia nowdayes.
Not i am wrong nowdayes claver people alwready know there cheating
I am trying to help the sect guyes and the so called gurus to get out from the strange sect and become ordinary good people,.Which is by the way is the first and nessesary step in spiritual life it called yama.
When one cheats about himself in such a ugly way that forcing people to warship him and serve how he can represent any kind of spirituality ah?

[Nanda-grama]

I agree that spirituality begins when man connects with Godness without mediator and take his responsibility for his life. Until he depends on another person it will be difficultly to feel himself and to be himself.
But this experience when man can give his life in hands of another man is also very special and it may be important for somebody.When young people come out from their institutes and they are filled idealism, they see that adult are busy by egoistic affairs, and they want to do something special, selfless, they want to accomplish exploit or to abandon themselves to somebody. And this gurus play the part of this great personalities whom may abandon oneself to.Personally I simply enjoyed this condition of devotion, it was what was missing in my life. Of couse, I was in luck that Hari plaed this part for me, because when I sow how Govinda Maharadji treated with his disciples, for example, I was horrified. He could say woman -"hey, old cow!". But his disciples were very happy. Every man receives such guru what he wants.

[kamalamala1]

i just realy cannot figure out how can cheaters and cheating help anybody.
But i can accept that for someperiod of time before one figures out who are there so called gurus he can get benefit just because he changed all his bad habits and began to meditate on God.
And even more if one sinsire, independing who is his so called his guru he can move on but in that case he can move on without anybody also isnt it then wath is the use of so called guru.
But in general anyway this guru people can hinder more then help.

Haris case was complitly different he was realy secrificing his life and never was into be served and warshiped he served all the movement
like anything,and he have super capasityes.He never cheats anybody.

[Nanda-grama]

It is funny but other people tell about their gurus the similar things. And also very sincerely. Simply think of it.
There are many realities simultaneously.
I feel similar thing as you, but there are many people who feel other things also sincere and they have their right to feel so. Therefore I would not make up my mind to confirm something categorically. I would say- I feel so, but it is not without fail absolute truth. IMHO

[kamalamala1]

How can they compare if they didnt realy know Hari.
Most of them quite young.
I knew all this gurus very well since iwas from the begining of there apearense in USSR.


THE BIG DIFFERENSE IS
THAT HARI STOPED THIS GURU THINGS, IN THE WARST MEANING OF THIS WARD ,FOR THE SAKE OF HIS DESCIPLES
BUT THE GURU GUYES CONTINUING EXPLOATATION OF THIS GURU IDEA AND PEOPLE

[kamalamala1]

you know this gurus is real cheaters


See even Arjuna for the sake of his existance was warking hard
see the life of Pandavas all the sages in the past was taking care
of there own life they all was complitly responsible people on all platforms.read Mahabharat.

This guru guyes complitly iresponsible people they are living on forsible donationts wich people giving for Lord,do you know how much money for example was donated for the Moscow temple and how all that desapeared in gurus and gbs "stomack" millions i know that from first hands.
And more then that this guyes calling others who are trying hard for there existance without cheating with a strange name Karmis.

And you think that This pufed up irresponsible peoples can represent Lord Chaitanya or God in general ,that they can help anybody.

can you imagine people warkes hard they got some money the gave it for temple and the guyes swallow up it under the name that they are special represantatives of God how this is for you.

I think that this is low class people .