Harimedia Forum

All that we do here- we discuss the format of broadcasts if it will be again. But Hari still doesn't tell that he intends to renew it. Without his opinion this discussion has not a sense for me. Although I am grateful to Kamalamala that he started all it. It was interestingly.

Opportunities are always there, whenever we want to use them. It was a high-time when the broadcasts were regularly held by Hari, but we were lightly in a passive mode I would say; not all, but maybe some of us? The broadcasts are gone (hopefully not for good Hari?) - well, there might be an opportunity for us to review and re-vitalize our spiritual life, thoughts, life experiences. To rethink our progress so far, to plan ahead (ok, this one's a joke), to come in harmony with the world and entities around. We could try to look for the positive sides always.

It might be a good think to dowload all the mp3s he gave us or shared with us rather. And start re-listening, coming back to the old, well known truths which miraculously come out ever-fresh each time we listen to them. There's a meaning between the lines as there is a deep heart feeling present in all those experiences he willingly shared with us throughout the years.

Sometimes people need rest, we're not made of iron, we get tired. Or sometimes feel a pressure from daily routine or lack this precious inspiration which usually gave us wings to fly.... Or we simply have other, equally important things to do for the time being, thus giving others the chance to realize what been said, giving the thought proper time to sink deeper into the consciousness. That's what I feel right now and he might have completely different reasons, so unless he tells us we don't know. It might be also that The Book is not ready yet... Books are long things sometimes but the longer it takes for them to manifest the more impact they might have on humanity.

As per today I'm so happy to be here with you for sharing, and tomorrow will show since going with the flow is the juice of life.

Opportunities are always there, whenever we want to use them. It was a high-time when the broadcasts were regularly held by Hari, but we were lightly in a passive mode I would say; not all, but maybe some of us?
I agree totally with this wards of Patriji and realy saying this is the real reason of the end of broadcast.
And also there was a lot influanced by ISCON people who was listening and for them wath Hari was saying quite far out since there minds complitly dependent, programed,,He was pushing people to think independantly without programs and stereotipes,to take real responsibility for every aspect of own life ecspesialy spiritual,wich ISCON people cannot and want not do.They want easy formulas and big crowd.
I dont think that if all we was really active the broadcast will end,more then that it naturally could grow to real discusion even the tecnickal parth will manifest itself naturally.
But there are the other side of isue many people would like to participate but they dont know english,even most cannot read all this texts.
And i also agree that it is also good when people have time to digest and rethink everything.
But from my point of vew once in a month wil give a lot of time to rethink and get new apetite.
And also let say the following picture, there are a master of Kung fu and people are coming to him
and asking would you like to teach us or train us,he naturaly will think why should i want,
more proper when people asking him please teach us share with us,then he could become
fired up,his desire totally depend on audiences desire,is nt it natural.
That is why so imp[ortant this forum,i personaly doesnt want to push the artifitial desires in anybody,i just expresed myself.
His opinion a lot depend on our opinions in this particular case.

Dear Harshiji
yes i was doing interesting videos but here are far more expert people like Sati and Shivaratri and Gaura they can realy do evrything.

kamalamala1 wrote:And also let say the following picture, there are a master of Kung fu and people are coming to him and asking would you like to teach us or train us, he naturaly will think why should i want, more proper when people asking him please teach us share with us, then he could become fired up, his desire totally depend on audiences desire, isn't it natural.

Last week I was watching on TV a very interesting movie related to what you wrote. The movie showed the true story of a historical figure from the old Japan a few centuries ago. The man in the movie was, as a boy, witness of a very tragic occurence within his village and his family. A gang of criminals, experts in Karate and swordfighting, attacked the village he and his family was living, and caused havok there. He was hiding himself during the attack and as such he could survive. Than he travelled as a boy alone and arrived at a Buddhist monastery. In this monastery the disciples learned under the supervision of expert teachers Buddha's teachings but also the art of Karate, Kung Fu and other martial arts the Samurai's were later dreaded for in Japan.

You had to become a member of this monastery to have acces to the teachings of this experts. So hiding his real purpose wich was to one day be able to bring justice to the wrongdoers he became witness and was unable to interwene, he was asking one teacher there to accept him at the monastery. The monastery was subdivised in lower and higher chambers or divisions according to the expertise aquired of the people there. The teacher asked him in what chamber he would like to start learning. Being very motivated to learn he replied he would like to start at the highest chamber of the monastery.

So the teacher allowed him to enter the room there. Interestingly in this chamber the members there were not fighting at all, instead they were only engaged in elevated philosophical discussions. The boy didn't knew it was not allowed to enter the different chambers of the monastery without having aquired also the necessary abilities and knowledge needed there. So the teacher there by seeing that a new man was entering his chamber asked him with harsh words what he wants and why he entered his room. The boy, unexperienced as he was, replied honestly what his wish was. The teacher was not very pleased with this answer and with his desire to start learning the art of self defense at the highest level and just with the supernatural power he had in his hands was blowing him out of the room like a leaf of a tree is blowed away by the wind.

Than he started to learn from the buttom up and became one day the most famous fighter of his kind who founded later his own school and opened the way to learn the art of fighting in self defence also to the common people of his country. Until than only the monks were learning those arts in the Buddhist monasteries of Japan. Of course as the movie showd at the end he brought also justice to the wrongdoers who attacked his village and family.

kamalamala1 wrote:And also there was a lot influanced by ISKCON people who was listening and for them what Hari was saying quite far out since there minds completely dependent, programed. He was pushing people to think independantly without programs and stereotipes, to take real responsibility for every aspect of own life especialy spiritual, wich ISKCON people cannot and want not do. They want easy formulas and big crowd.

Indeed its not easy to change the perspective of your thoughts, it takes some time. You may know more since you could speak also personally with Hari, from face to face so to speak. This "programming" what you mention is mainly the belief in the "guru" or the spiritual guide or teacher and his somehow higher ability to connect with the realm of the divine and the divine personalities, than a simple fellow like us. But thats nothing new, Nanda-grama was recently also mentioning that for him only Hari has this kind of special ability of having a spiritual connection with Radha-Krishna. So what is the difference?

Dear Harsi!
I think you understood me incorrectly, or you wanted to understand it so,because this topic stings to the quick you by your reasons which are unknown for me.
Firstly, this words about the connection of Hari with Radha-Krishna were not mine, but Kamalamala's. And I think he didn't tell that ONLY Hari.
And I am not "he", but "she".

Time is not the real factor the most real factor is desire.
Who have desire they can change easaly who dont have they will not change even after 100 years.
Yes, agree totally that assosiation with Hari helped so much,that is why i am so gratfull to him,and thanknig him so much,but i dont agree that others have no possibilitys to assosiate,they have the same exactly opportunity and stil have,but they dont want, this is the problem.
It is just there choise.
And they dont want since they became slaves of different patterns, concepts, wich made the teaching of ISCON,the books, and wich they realy dont understand only trying to believe,it is not that they just have believes to gurus,it is only small parth althought very iimportant.
Please dont understand wrongly i dont mean that the books are bad or totally wrong,
many thing ecspesialy social things at all cannot be applyed to modern reality,and more then that the ward "must" have nothing to do with bhakti.I am sure you understand wath i mean.
Bhakti- love is totally 100% voluntary process otherwise it is not love it is something else.
The voluntary deeds can be don only by independant person.
And as independant person i am writing wat i am thinking.Not quoting Guru or acarya.
You can see that iam not even quoting Hari i am writing wath i am thinking is right.
And yes i can say that there are big diffenrens betwin all of us living beeings,althought all of us including even dogs and cats and e.t.c
have strong conection with God but i would most prefer to hear One s who are on the lavel
of abvious interactive relation,not on the level of faith.I can hear others and learn also from others
but such peoples is not so rare i can catch them in street althought i can also agree that all the individuals are very unique and powerfull..
One can ask well how you know who is on that level,well i can say it is very subjective and it is whole life decicions i wrote wath i think is right for me.
For me in this case is more intersting to hear the real mistique person,althought other s i love and appreciate and ready to learn .
Nanda Gram very nicly explained the point.

The difference are very big one can realy have real interactive conection and the others only declares that they have but they have just a faith,If i am wrong then it is super that realy so many people are so qualified,but i am very very very sceptical person,i will never accept anybody just because milions of people accept him or he himself apointed him or his guru appointed him,this is realy a very careful lifelong investigation. But again deffenetly everybody have strong conection with God.

Please read in this forum the question "dying" and you will undersatand that not everybody can do that wath Hari is doing very easely.

"The ethic of love taught by Jesus was quite revolutionary in his day. Though there are Rabbinic parallels to many of the sayings of Jesus, his overarching ethic of love for the downtrodden is without peer in any ancient document. Perhaps in this ethic of love we are at our very closest to the mind and will of the Historical Jesus of Nazareth. Here it is that we see him as he was; for the Church could not and would not have invented such unlikely sayings which would stand in constant tension with the real situation of a status seeking institution." ~ Theology.edu

Dear Nanda-grama,
I wish you and all who read this conversation a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year 2009. And you are right its time to meet one day and know each other better. Hari was mentioning that he would like maybe in spring 2009 to come again to Russia. Maybe it would be a good idea if there could be a small anouncement on Harimedia. If possible I would like to come also to meet him and all of you. To personally share a few words is always better than in Cyberspace.

And you are right Kamalamala, not everybody can do that what Hari is doing very easely. Here we are of the same opinion.
I also like, by the way, how Hari was pleasing his wife Kamala (Katarina) by playing music for her and the guests at the Graduation Ceremony of the Avalon Astrology School in Gainesville. See Photos

kamalamala1 wrote:The difference are very big one can really have real interactive connection and the others only declare that they have but they have just a faith.

Who can look inside the heart and mind of someone else and describe what’s there? Therefore I would like to take our discussion in another direction, namely what could be a spiritual understanding that is more in harmony with the spiritual reality of things?

For example there might be the understanding that one is somehow impure and thus has to strive for spiritual perfection. How can an "impure" person connect with the most pure divine personality of Godhead? One would have to purify oneself by various means, chanting the names of Krishna is one of them. That was or is the understanding in various circles of society. So chanting the Hare Krishna mantra had also this kind of purpose. And than the rounds, chanting 16 rounds. Wherefrom came this kind of understanding that to chant Krishna's names in a certain amount of rounds may have certain 'therapeutic' or 'cleaning' effects for us and our spiritual being? If I am in my spiritual nature of the same nature as the Supreme why do I have to "clean" or "purify" this spiritual nature of mine in order to become aware of it? Why can I not just "be" it?

That reminds me of a movie with Sean Connery I was watching ones on TV. Connery played a man of the 19th century who succeeded together with another two persons, in a very clever way, to steal a great amount of gold from the State bank of Great Britain. Nevertheless he was caught by the police, though he was able to escape afterwards. In court one judge started to speak to him like a philosopher asking him if he was not aware of the consequences of his doing and how could he dare to do this to the state. Connery replied he would not understand what he means. Than the other judge started to speak by explaining to him that since a few thousand years society is teaching its members to act rightly, why did he do what he did? Connery replied shortly "I wanted the gold." All the people present at the court started to laugh.

Pure or dirty, gold maintains its specific attractive attributes. Why should our being or spiritual nature be different one may ask. Of course one may say that while one is chanting one also serves the holy name of Krishna, recommended by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. But service implies also free will otherwise its not service. Like Kamalamala wrote so rightfully "Bhakti- love is a totally 100% voluntary process otherwise it is not love it is something else. The voluntary deeds can be done only by an independent person."

It seems to me that Caitanya Mahaprabhu meant the chanting of the holy names of Krishna also more as an appreciation or longing for a dear person like Krishna. Chanting the names of ones beloved one in a love that longs for union with the beloved rather as only a "process of self-purification" for the soul. In his literary masterpiece Siksastakam Sri Caitanya writes:

"O my Lord, your holy name alone can render all benediction to living beings, and thus you have hundreds and millions of names like Krishna and Govinda. In these transcendental names you have invested all your transcendental energies. There are not even hard and fast rules for chanting these names. O my Lord, out of kindness you enable us to easily approach you by your holy names, but I am so unfortunate that I have no attraction for them."

"One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly."

There is no mentioning of chanting a certain amount of rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra nor making anyone else feel bad in any way. He just writes what his understanding of this topic is and how Krishna would "enable us to easily approach" him by his holy names. For chanting these names "there are not even hard and fast rules" although a certain "state of mind" would be more favorable for chanting "the holy name of the Lord constantly." Books and articles are written to give information and it is up to the reader to create meaning and give purpose to the information he may extract from them.

Interesting is also what I found written on the Internet about the book "The Philosophy and Religion of Sri Caitanya"
"This is a comprehensive, critical and comparative study of all aspects of the philosophy and religion of Sri Caitanya... In the succeeding chapters the problems of philosophy and religion are discussed in detail. It is shown how Sri Caitanya breathes a new spirit into philosophy and religion by transcending the narrow and mutually conflicting 'isms' and dogmas and reconciling them in a higher synthesis by means of the concept of the absolute as bhagavan and doctrine of Acintya-bheda-bheda or inconceivable identity-in-difference."

kamalamala1 wrote:And as independant person I am writing wat I am thinking. Not quoting Guru or acarya. You can see that I am not even quoting Hari I am writing what I am thinking is right.

I don't think that the practice of quoting or citing someone elses words or some other source of information is a problem, rather the idea that by making such quotations one is assuring that one is speaking or writing in an "authoritative way." (guru, sadhu, sastra). In journalism for example it is quite recomendet to quote what someone said in order to give the reader also the posibility to come to know the other side. Its a common practice in the media.

On the Hindunet someone wrote in this regard:
"The medieval Bengali saint Narottama dasa Thakura wrote: "guru-sadhu-sastra-vakya, cittete koriya aikya."
"One's natural, heartfelt desires should be indistinguishable from the statements of guru, the community (and tradition) of saints, and the tenets of sastra. For those whose acquaintence with the adhyatmika practices of the great sages of yore (distant past) is meager (and who in modern society can claim otherwise, considering the immense decay Vedic culture has undergone), the guidance of thousands of years of the experiences of the previous acaryas as well as the traditions they upheld are of inestimable value. This becomes increasingly evident to those who seriously endeavor to apply the principles of sastra in the modern day and age."

On Wikipedia.org one can read:
"The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—that is, whether readers are able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether we think it is true. Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged, or the material may be removed." (more)

A would like to share with you a quotation from the Swedenborgian Community Website.

"The mission is to create a vibrant online spiritual community available 24/7 for Swedenborgians and seekers around North America and the globe..." "The site has attracted hundreds of people who have registered to participate in Discussion Forums, participate in live chats, create Community interest pages, and much more." MORE »

I find its an interesting mission statement and development vision.



In the building of this Community in Washington D.C. the "Chant 4 Change" event will take place on 19 January.

-Harsi wrote: If I have same nature as Divine why do I must clean myself in order to connect with Them? And Lord Chaitanya didn't mention about necessary to chant 16 rounds, He told :"There isn't strict rules for chanting of Holy names…" And it was more as expression of longing to Radha-Krishna,not obligatory "cleaning" practice. (you deleted it in vain)
Harsi, it is interesting topic. I also think that the chanting of holy names by definite quantity of times isn't the obligatory condition for a connection with Divine. Certainly it gives "cleaning" effect as all that concerns to Divine. But what for great devotees was a natural manifestation of their love to God, now turned into a rule. How it seems to me, 2 things - a feeling of " oneself" and sensitiveness to divine energy -are necessary for successful connection with Divine. For example, I have some problems with feeling of myself( because there are many different parts of me)and therefore I simply come to tranquil condition without thoughts about what- I am worthy of it or not, I am enough pure or not- and then address to Divine with some feeling( not without fail with love). As to Divine ,They always are ready to the contact and very glad it . I can speak with Them or simply feel Them. I can define that I'm really connected with Them when I feel particular energy and my mood becomes very joyful even if I was sad before it, and Their answers surpass my knowledge. And after this intercourse some changes happen in my life, and usually some problem about what I asked disappears. It is a simple thing and all we have this connection(any way , God is always ready for it) . But it seems to me when someone thinks - that he is unworthy it, that it is impossible, that ONLY a guru can do it, or that for it he musts execute all rules and deserve special blessing, or that his connection is not real- it is, most likely, not very easily. I think that different people can have different degree of brightness and clarity of this connection. I don't know it depend on what ,but may be , sincerity and readiness of man to do what God offer to do -is important. On the other hand, my personal experience is such that attitude of Radha-Krishna to me does not change if I don't do what They offer me. And it seems to me, chanting of Holy names helps to develop definite character of relationships with Them.
-Harsi wrote:I don't think that the practice of quoting is a problem...
It can be interestingly and inspiringly when there is possibility to read opinions of great people. I think it becomes a problem when person hides in words of other people. I remember that in ISSCON when somebody argued his words to quote shastras, listeners perceived him very good even if he spoke nonsense. And if he told most sincere, deep things but began his speech by the words:" I think"," I feel so", "it seems to me"-listeners strained themselves in expectation to hear something not authoritative, connected with maya and inventions of mind . I think the cause of it is fear to be incorrect, unlike on other people, fear to be oneself. There is amusing opinion about this phenomenon from the point of view of knowledge about chakra's system: excessive quoting shows decrease of energy in 5 chakra, in short, scarcity of creative origin in the person. In less cultured people it displays itself as
excessive use of unquotable words in their speech.
Besides if somebody wants to develop him relationships with Divine and constantly meditates on another's experience of this relationships, it seems to me not very effectively. For example, if I want to experience love and I will study "Romeo and Julietta", will I arrive at my purpose? I can repeat this history as a exorcism, can try to do same things , but I only will feel better what this heroes felt by this existent phenomenon of sympathy. But if I want to really feel my own love, I should do my own steps- to make me acquaintance with somebody and etc., and my love will be absolutely other!
And all great devotees whom we quote are famous of their breach of previous rules by follow of a knowledge in their hearts.
Indeed I admire your ability, Harsi, to move such big quantity of information from other places to this forum, but I more interest your own ideas.