Becoming K... conscious or how to re-invent the wheel

[harsi]

On the internet in a quote atributed to Prabhupada one can read:

"Our purpose is to help everyone awaken their original Krishna consciousness, which is eternal, full of knowledge and full of bliss. Such a global awakening will, in one stroke, solve all the problems of the world society bringing in a new era of unprecedented peace and prosperity for all. May that day, which the world so desperately needs, come very soon."

The author of the website continues:
"Just as the Ford Motor Company does not have to re-invent the wheel every time it produces a new car, the bona fide spiritual master does not have to engage in the tedious task of inventing a new teaching. He simply has to faithfully repeat the message exactly as he has received it from his spiritual master and thus be a perfectly transparent channel for his spiritual master's message and mercy."

But exactly here is the big contradiction this people who are engaged in preaching to us so vigoreausly are unaware of. I am already an aware or conscious person, a part of God, by whatever name someone may like to call this ME, my already inherent nature, or that of God the Supreme One. I dont have to become convinced of that what I am already, - Just as the Ford Motor Company does not have to re-invent the wheel every time it produces a new car. - the wheel exists already, one just uses it in the manifactoring of the car.


Than there are others who write on the Internet

"As living spirit soul, we are actually part and parcel of Krishna. The mother and father are just temporary. Mother and father are also subject to the miseries of birth, death, old age and disease. Although the mother and father act as the guardians of the children, they cannot really give any relief to the children from the problems of material existence—birth, old age, disease and death. Therefore, in the human life there are books of knowledge (shastras) which are for helping the conditioned soul to get out of the cycle of birth and death. The value of human life is that we revive our original consciousness and relationship with God and be released from the illusory existence in relationship to this body."


The fact is that where all this so called preaching took people is that many became estranged from their own perceptive faculty as living and fully aware persons and their own roots and society of people while searching the mirage or fata morgana of another so called better one, the so called Krishna conscious life and society.

The person or soul or whatever one would like to call this aware energy exists already as also the society of people at large. But no this so called preachers of Krishna consciousness or whatver want to make us believe that we are not aware of that what we already are. We would need to get educated for becoming aware of this our already inherent nature. But the fact is that everyone of us is already fully aware of that nature. Soul or whatever is just a name for this nature of us evryone is already aware of. Actualy there is no need for noone to get educated to believe to BE that what one IS already. The same is valid for the society of of us living beings which already exists. There is no need whatsoever to JOIN or manufacture from scratch or begin (again) from the beginning to make another one. The society exists already from the beginning of time.

- As living spirit soul, we are actually part and parcel of Krishna. The quote above continues. So what does that really telling me. Do I have to become convinced by anyone in order to BE that what I AM already, that would mean - the Ford Motor Company would have to re-invent the wheel (Me, the aware person) every time it produces a new car. But that would be a very foolish proposal and activity.

So what I want to say by this is that I Am already that what I Am, and does not have to get convinced or preached to by anyone so that I may manufacture or re/invent this my awareness of myself and of that or this I am already conected with.

The same is valid for being aware or conscous of God, the Supreme. Everyone does it already in some way or other, thats our nature. Those who want to convince us that that would not be the case actually are just trying to force their views down on us to further their own agenda and profit in some way from our insecurity and disbelieve in our self and that what we already ARE. In this divine creation of the Supreme everything is the way it IS and not the way it should BE or may BECOME one day by some process.

The question is rather how to live a harmonious and peacefull life and associate with one another in the already existing society of people in that conscious awarenes of oneself and all of US and not on how to BECOME or BE this or that what actually Is already our inherent nature.

[harsi]

Actually this whole bewilderment started with the belief that their would be a time when we would be or become aware of that our already inherent spiritual nature by just FOLLOWING long enough a kind of regulative process which at the end would one day disclose this to us, if we would just have enough patience and would be strict enough in following this process.

The idea comes from this stories of the yogis who after doing long enough their so called yoga process all of a sudden the soul apeares or manifests itself in their consciousness and all of a sudden they realize who they ARE and what their conection IS with God, the Supreme reality.

And than because one wanted to have something one can show to others as an example of so called spiritual perfection and awareness one was furthering this idea of sanyasa or renunciation. Like to say look here is someone who already realized or became aware in some way or other of this his inherent spiritual nature and relation with Krishna or God, follow his example.

I am sure there are others who can share also their own observations in this regard.

[harsi]

Ok some people may say or write, how can you say that everyone knows already what his identity is and who God, the Supreme Lord is. People would have to read first and listen to all kinds of scriptures and revelations from and about him in order to become aware or realize one day their and his identity, or like others might say maybe, listen to what Hari, the mystics, is revealing to us in his lectures.

It was interesting to me in this regard the fact that Hari was presented on some Russian websites, see Pangeya.ru, also as a spiritual master although this word carries with it a lot of emotional implications and associations nowadays. At least the Google translater was translating from Russian like this.

That was amazing for me to read since before it was already so that in the society of people before we were thinking that only through the so called spiritual master or what we though that such a spiritual master would be we would be able through his mercy to REALIZE one day our real identity as spirit soul and would understand and realize or become aware of Krishna, or God the Supreme Lord.

We were thinking that only the so called spiritual master would be the one who would indeed be in the position of self awareness or self realization and would have a somehow direct connection with God or Krishna. It was even speculated that the so called spiritual master would return in the future again to this earth from the spiritual abode where he left after giving up his body, which he spiritualized through his engagement in devotional service, before in order to help his disciple to follow him in the spiritual world. It was said or understood that ones connection with the spiritual master would be eternal, although from the common understanding it had a beginning at the time of initiation. I guess that was only one of the many things one was accepting as a fact and reality before without trying to get first to the bottom of it.

I say that everyone is already aware in some way or other about his identity, to say that you would have to give up first your false understanding about yourself in the sence that you would have to renounce the material body and the pleasures connected with it first, like pealing of the layers of some fruit first in order to reach its seed, the seedlike form of the soul, is in my opinion a myth.

If I am not aware of myself I am already dead and the body ceases to function properly. So in my opinion it doesnt matter really how you may call that awareness or realization, if soul awareness or body awareness. Fact is I am aware of myself, soul or body or jiva or atma or whatever name one may use in this connection are just that what they are - namely expressions or words describing me, the aware person who has an identity. Or is it not so?

As we dont know what is after death, there is no reason to be afraid of it said Socrates. In order to fear it don't we have to know if its scary or bad? Thus we should not worry about it.

Socrates also says that death is one of two things. (1) Nothingness or (2) an afterlife. If (1) is true, than we have nothing to worry about because there won't be any pain, and we won't be around to suffer. It will just be like a great nights sleep that we don't remember. If it's (2) than we still have nothing to worry about because we shall be in the afterlife, which could end up being a good time.

[harsi]

Its interesting for me in this regard that the knowledge and information Hari is revealing in his lectures to us seems to not have primarily the goal of realizing or become aware of the soul as being separate from the body and God or Krishna as being somehow fully separate from us as it was preached so vigorously before in Iskcon. But it is still not clear for me what its goal is than in the sence of being also a logic viable alternative for the goal one was trying maybe to pursue before. Does someone of you know something more in this regard?

[aradhya]

Dear Harsi, knowing the hidden meaning of your latest message, please alow me to confirm it: the present we are now in, is basicly the same we were previously in, as is the future we will be in, so no one(especialy Hari) could radicaly change his\her main intention while doing what is supposed to be done at certain points of time. About Russians, of course everybody should respect Hari's choise not to receive artificial adoration anymore, but if sameone silently feels Him as one's own spiritual supporter without who's help one's spiritual live would be very difficalt, what's wrong with that?

[Nanda-grama]

It is interestingly

[Nanda-grama]

why should my body be separate from my being? If it is obviously that my body is continuation of my energy, my being. Any my throught or my feeling influences on condition of my body and reflects itself in my body to make it ill or health. Why should Divine be separate from this world if so called "material world" has it's beginning in spiritual energy, in "spiritual world"? If energy of God is in every atom why is this world not spiritual? Or is the energy of God in this world less spiritual that His energy somewhere in another world? Only an illusion in our mind does us separate from spiritual energy. Indeed, this accent on difference of body and soul, material and spiritual which is in ISKCON increases our illusion that we are here and now separate from spiritual energy and from God. And it seems to me, in Srimad-Bhagavatam there is description of supreme quality of vaishnavs, uttama-adhikari, who sees God and spiritual energy in everything. "They already live in spiritual world"- the quotation from it.

[harsi]

It is indeed so dear Aradhya that no one can change his / her real intention, which in my opinion lies therein to serve and feel responible for the whole. Now of course the big question is what or who is this or that Whole, or complete One and what is our part or role within IT, or this or that complete One.

I agree fully with you that one should respect Hari's choise not to receive artificial adoration anymore, although there would be nothing wrong in silently feeling him as one's own spiritual supporter. A good word indeed, spiritual supporter, or a spiritual guide or spiritual coach in life.

But I have the impression the Russians choosed to continue in this regard with the old ways of adoring their > spiritual master, and defend him and their concept about him, the real mystics, and what he reveals to them in his lectures, against all reason and common sence in public and on this forum. Nanda grama wrote above (Of course now she choused as so often to edit her comment in this regard) that Hari is expressing himself complitelly clear in his lectures, but like I said I have sometimes my dificulties to understand him fully in this regard. And no one from Russia seems willing to really clarify my doubts and posible misunderstandings in this regard. It is also posible, although that is just a speculation of mine, that Hari is reavealing to his Russian > disciples in confidence while being in Russia more as he does it in his public lectures to us. That could explain also a lot in this regard. Of course another reason could be also their great affection and love for their dear > spiritual master, whatever that may mean to those who feel some spiritual connection with him and what he is teaching.

My understanding in this regard is that I myself as an integral part or an integral component of the Complete Whole, however one may want to define that or this Complete Whole, am my own driver through life and this cosmic manifestation, and although I may listen or read someones spiritual or whatever advices I am still the one fully equiped by my nature as an integral part of the whole, a drop of this spiritual ocean, to be able to decide my fortune in life. The concept that I have to obey to the concept or teachings of someone else, spiritual master or whatever name you may want to call that one, makes no sense for me anymore.

[aradhya]

Dear Nanda-grama, I agree that stressing the difference between spititual and material could be damaging for both of them, nevertheless, we can't ignore the permanent change of bodies and our permanent hope that we could somehow escape out of ( otherwise why do we so vigorously take part in the so called struggle for survival day after day?). Knowing you know that, I can't find other meaning in your last post than to kindly engage me ( and others like me) in stress-relieving spiritual exchange by answering your challenge. Just see how a theme like this one, already discused so many times, be so inspiring that we are not tired of repeating it ( not re-inventing it, as Harsi have said having the same intention like yours, I suppose ). In other words, your insistence we are already in the spiritual world I could interpret only as it is in Bhagavad-Gita's verse ( 10.9. ):,,...kathayantas ca mam nityam, tusyanti ca ramanti ca...,, Thank you for the opportunity you are giving to me!

[Nanda-grama]

Dear Harsi, all it is very funny about special Russian love to spiritual master. May be, some reason of your incomprehension and "Russian understanding" is in what we( I mean me and people whom I know) don't think about Hari as about SPIRITUAL TEACHER( in ISKCON's sense) and we read very many books ( Polson, C.Deil, M.Nuton, Uolsh and many other) and in context of this knowlege it is more simply to understand that Hari means. This attitude to somebody as to SPIRITUAL MASTER, WHO SHOULD EXPLAIN ME ALL, SHOULD TAKE ME AND BRING ME TO SPIRITUAL WORLD makes understanding of what person tells or wants to tell very difficult because in this case one listen not directly, his expectations and demands prevent him to feel another person. In your case this is same attitude only with "minus". And it is not dreadfuly if you don't understand something( although I'm sure that you understand all good, and this questions are simply mental constructions). But what is astonishingly that you tell about your incomprehension in the form of reproach to adress of Hari. For example, if I will not understand something in your articles I simply will ask you about it, but will not discuss in forum with other participants about "this strange Harsi" who writes sush incomprehensible things .
(Indeed I edit my posts offen because 1) I'm not sure in my English and 2) I want to express my throught more softly .)

[Nanda-grama]

Dear Aradhya ,I'm sorry if my statement that my body is continuation of my spiritual energy and that so called "material world" is continuation of spiritual world causes stress for somebody, but I really think so. I think also that permanent alterations of body are blessing for us because it lets us to get permanent new experience. Indeed, even terrible illness may be strong spiritual experience and blessing. As we are in spiritual world as we are connected with spirit.

[harsi]

In the Gita ( 10.9. ) we find Krishna saying to Arjuna "mad-citta mad-gata-prana bodhayantah parasparam, kathayantas ca mam nityam tusyanti ca ramanti ca" - my devotees they always talk with each other, illuminating one another talking about my pastimes, my lila and in this way they are very happy".

On the Internet we can find an article written and published by Prabhupada in 1948 wherein he writes

“Preaching of Bhagavad-gita is not, therefore, a proposition of mental speculation and putting in different mental interpretations of speculative empiric philosphers. It is one without a second concrete fact for the amelioration of the sufferings of humanity especially and animality generally. It must be presented in the bona fide method of spreading the knowledge, strictly in the line of transcendental chain of disciplic succession.”

Now what should one say to this? The 18th century poet Thomas Gray is responsible for the often-quoted phrase: Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise. American president Thomas Jefferson embellished that quotation with one of his own. He said, if ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?

Now so many people may say so many things but what about me? Where do I stand or what is my understanding or point regarding this. Have I nothing to say in this regard? Am I a no one or just a leave blowing in the wind of what others are saying or revealing to me as their understanding? I dont think so. Krishna or someone else may have said or say so many things but it is me who decides and is fully capable and equiped with the full ability to decide if it makes sense to me or not. So why should I care what someone like Krishna, Prabhupada or even Hari is saying or writing if it does not makes sence to me? Of course if it does make sence to me why should I not care about it? So in the end everything is also a personal preference depending on our own free will. A decision of my own, namely ME and no-one else.

I decide what or whose words I follow in life or with whom I would like to associate depending on what makes sence to me and whom I like. And if I decide to follow or serve the interest of someone else I do it with the understanding that in doing so I satisfy also my own needs and aspirations in life.

Otherwise if one just FOLLOWS what others are saying because everyone else is doing it although it may not make any sence to oneself what is the use. The Communists in the former Communistic countries were doing so. They had their own “bona fide method of spreading the knowledge“ of Marx, Engels and Lenin and similar other such “iluminated minds“ and always engaged the media in publishing literatures and magazines in this regard. Where are they now, have they reached the goal of ameliorating “the sufferings of humanity“ within their utopian communistic society they were all aspiring for? The history knows the answer...

[Nanda-grama]

Ok, freedom is good, I also like freedom very much. But when person feels himself free he doesn't worry about what somebody says , he doesn't spend his time in order to prove while world that he is free from somebody's influence and that all that other person tells has not some value, and this freedom should not prevent understanding of something or of another person. Nobody compels you to accept and to follow to what Hari speaks, I think, he has not such desire to see you or somebody as his follower. He shares his experience and understanding with us, if it has not some value for you- it's ok. It is interestingly for me. But it's normally. Also as someone reads with interest your articles but somebody looks it with boredom. It's ok, a person can't be interesting for all people. But it doesn't mean that somebody is better or worse , or somebody has not his right to express himself in such form which he likes.
I'm agree with you about Communism. I was so successful that when I came to such age when I began to consious myself -this dark time already stoped in Russia. But it is funny that you often use this example with Communism when you discuss something with Russian. It is same if I would remember constantly about fashism only because you live in Germany
About ignorance- I think that degree of ignorance depends on not condition of body, but on condition of consiousness.

[Nanda-grama]

I think, the essence of what Hari speaks- how to be connected with own being and with Divine and to experience spirituality right now. Not after death, not after great and difficult service for spiritual master or for Krishna, not after hard tryings to attain God and to run away from influence of Maya, but right here and now. In it there is main difference from what were spoke in ISKCON. And it seems to me, Hari shares his experience in enough democratic manner.

[harsi]

More quotes which I like, and were chosen by my dear wife Marina,

"Falling in love you remain a child; rising in love you mature. By and by love becomes not a relationship, it becomes a state of your being. Not that you are in love - now you are love."
— Osho

"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
— Albert Einstein

"People aren't either wicked or noble. They're like chef's salads, with good things and bad things chopped and mixed together in a vinaigrette of confusion and conflict."
— Lemony Snicket (The Grim Grotto)

"Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live."
— Mark Twain

"Sometimes our flame goes out, but is blown again into instant flame by an encounter with another human being."
— Albert Schweitzer

"My one regret in life is that I am not someone else."
— Woody Allen

"Let me be, was all I wanted. Be what I am, no matter how I am."
— Henry Miller (Stand Still Like the Hummingbird)

"To perceive is to suffer."
— Aristotle

"One Can't Have Wisdom Without Living Life"
— kianoush

"If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts; but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties."
— Francis Bacon

As usual goodness hardly puts up a fight."
— Bill Watterson