But in S.B also there many texts wich i consider realy not aplyable for modern society and more then that harmful, I think it is due to different values and needs of present society and
the 5000 years ago ones.
SB 5.14.3: My dear King, family members in this material world go under the names of wife and children, but actually they behave like tigers and jackals. A herdsman tries to protect his sheep to the best of his ability, but the tigers and foxes take them away by force. Similarly, although a miserly man wants to guard his money very carefully, his family members take away all his assets forcibly, even though he is very vigilant.
This from Prabhupads translation ,i dont realy know maybe in other translation its sound different . The coments are more havy.
I dont know maybe Prabhupad had real resons in that time since he needs army for his mision. But on this kind of text it is not possible at all to make a healthy society.
Nowdayes people have hard time to be attracted to family life to childrens no need to push them to be less atracted,it much needed
to preach them to realy take care for childrens and wifes and parents.Wath kind of people will grow if you consider them jacals and tigers from childhood , where is love?
I cannot believe that vedic civilisation had such values.
And more then that there are so much accents to make one fearfull
totaly,i personaly think this made by religious politicions to control the masses even 1000 years ago.
Wath to speak wath is writen about womans in general there.
Althought the philosophical spiritual and historical parth of bhagavatam is realy realy increadable.I bow down before the sages who made it,
But the rest i think was concocted later, and blindly apply it in our modern life it will make real caos.
please understand me corectly i very much appreciating Prabhupad
he did so many great things very approropriate in his time.
but it doesnt mean that i accept evrything wich is writen in his books
P.S There are two ways of spirituality nivrity and pravrity marg.
nivrity means denaying everthing ,body ,mind, life , own self all the warld
this way is maybe for hermits for sanyases for tantreests and not at all for evry of them ,but surly not for societes,it is very difficult questionable way
Pravrity marg means accepting everything including body own self and wath to speak of life as Divine manifistation.
This way is deffenatly much better it is very usefull for societe and for everybody
Srimad Bhagavatam mainly pointing on nivrity marg.Since maybe also because it was spoken to the person who in a week going to die.
And the present holistic spirituality and even mahbaharat mainly on pravrity marg and varnashrama also based on praviti marg
The goal of both margs the same make strong conaction with God.
And it is harmful and useless task to preach to societe nivriti marg
That is why Srmad bhagavatam from the begining was secret it meant was for small group ,and as it is writen in it in second sloka it made for paramhamsas means sanyasyes not for societes not for womans means mothers and childrens not at al l for young mens , not at all because they are not capable ,just because one should enjoy life should be positive to life, to body, to people
and evrything else otherwise wath kind of societe will come out,
can you imagin people taking burth and from there childhood just thinking about death about how bad is the life, after some time how bad is there wifes there childs and wath a terrible thing is family life.And instead making experianses ,trying to reaveal
ther own soul here in cocreation, they all they long from childhood trying to think about death, is this positive is this helpfull for societe,does this wath God want?
one can chouse
Life is such a wanderfull gift, why we should denay it, all creation including death is divine and filled with divine magical energy.
And God is so amaising that he made all this creation
he present in it [virat rupa]in evry its parth and seeing it you can feel his presence
[This is pravrity marg]
or life is horrible panishment ,this warld is jail
and most of the people camels dogs and e.t.c
wifes and childrens are jackals and tigers
body is the sack of stool, sences is the road to death
ladyes is from evil
and so on
only God is great
one can chouse this also
but wath he wiil attain with such an outlook
but one thing is abvious that societes cannot be based on such outlook, it is not possible
So how should be the new spirituality [ecspesialy for ones who influensed by a old traditions], wich is aplyable for modern life
for society
There are so many great v books on tis isue
Hari gave tons of lecture on this isue
PLEASE READ HARIS BOOK
.
Zonal Acharya, Living Guru, Ritvik , Self Effulgent Acharya?
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kamalamala1
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:46 pm
Re: Zonal Acharya, Living Guru, Ritvik , Self Effulgent Acharya?
Last edited by kamalamala1 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:01 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Nanda-grama
- Posts: 272
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:13 pm
- Location: Moscow
!
All it, of course, is great discussion. But imagine: Hari comes to this forum and reads here: Hari is fallen!- No, Hari is great! Hari tells his own ideas! -No, he is divine son of Prabhupada! 
Hari will think: My God!
It seems to me, his broadcastings have not only spiritual value, but also some human and artistic value. When some person has such courage to be front the whole world and to share with it his feeling,ideas, mood, and when he is doing it so great, it has own value. If we will count how much percentages of spirituality were in this or that broadcasting, and what teachings he represented, he can lose his inspiration to do it. Charm of this broadcastings is in his natural self-expression, in this ingenuous joint experience. We should not lay down conditions or some limitations for Hari's display. If he will have such mood, he should have his right and freedom to not speak generally about Divine or Radha-Krishna and so on. And it can be very interestingly nevertheless. Because spirituality places not in words or in some information, spirituality is in the person as he is, in his energy, in us and our energy, in special atmosphere of this joint experience. And if we don't like it, we always have such possibility simply to not listen to it. There is something not ethical in what how we discuss this person as if he would be not alive man, but some position, or some statue, or some mechanism for production of spiritual energy.
Hari will think: My God!It seems to me, his broadcastings have not only spiritual value, but also some human and artistic value. When some person has such courage to be front the whole world and to share with it his feeling,ideas, mood, and when he is doing it so great, it has own value. If we will count how much percentages of spirituality were in this or that broadcasting, and what teachings he represented, he can lose his inspiration to do it. Charm of this broadcastings is in his natural self-expression, in this ingenuous joint experience. We should not lay down conditions or some limitations for Hari's display. If he will have such mood, he should have his right and freedom to not speak generally about Divine or Radha-Krishna and so on. And it can be very interestingly nevertheless. Because spirituality places not in words or in some information, spirituality is in the person as he is, in his energy, in us and our energy, in special atmosphere of this joint experience. And if we don't like it, we always have such possibility simply to not listen to it. There is something not ethical in what how we discuss this person as if he would be not alive man, but some position, or some statue, or some mechanism for production of spiritual energy.
Last edited by Nanda-grama on Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kamalamala1
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:46 pm
Re: Zonal Acharya, Living Guru, Ritvik , Self Effulgent Acharya?
Nanda
but i got an impression that all alwready understood each other
and nobody disscusing anymore that strange isues.
Things happeneing naturaly and nothing wrong that people expresing and trying to figure out any isue [if it done cultaraly]
For the rest
Yes you are right.
Absolutly
but i got an impression that all alwready understood each other
and nobody disscusing anymore that strange isues.
Things happeneing naturaly and nothing wrong that people expresing and trying to figure out any isue [if it done cultaraly]
For the rest
Yes you are right.
Absolutly
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kamalamala1
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:46 pm
Re: Zonal Acharya, Living Guru, Ritvik , Self Effulgent Acharya?
BY THE WAY
IN 7 TH OF SEPTEMBER HARI IS COMING TO MOSCOW
IN 7 TH OF SEPTEMBER HARI IS COMING TO MOSCOW
Re: Zonal Acharya, Living Guru, Ritvik , Self Effulgent Acharya?
In my opinion all this discussion about Prabhupada and what is written where by him or who would be related somehow to him or still is or was somehow his "son" is superfluos or unnecessary. Prabhupada the human being who wrote or may have said what is being mentioned nowadays here and there, is already dead and buried in Vrindavan. Or was it maybe Mayapur, since there was build a samadhi for him also? As far as I know they still worship him also somehow or somewhere, I think its the Krishna Balaram Mandir, in a shrine build in his memory there in Vrindavan. Anyway, Prabhupada the author of all this many literatures and former spiritual master of so many pupils or disciples who may happen to still live (or be in their particular bodies here on Earth) today, is already dead and buried. As such he can anyway not respond to all this which may be written or speculated by others about him. So whats the use? As he always said to his many disciples: "One should always remember that as long as he has a material body he must face the miseries of repeated birth, old age, disease and death". I mean he was already also quite old, 81 or so he reached when he died on November 14, 1977 (Bio). Some may say he lived his life and reached a good age. My one year older sister Renate died last year two days before my birthday, she became just 48 years old.
So as the proverb goes nothing is so sure as death. Of course some may say no Prabhupada cannot really be considered dead and was buried in Vrindavan, he, the person, is rather eternal and lives forever. He just left or departed his material body which he "spiritualized" by doing "devotional service" and eating only "prasadam", before leaving, whatewer that may mean... So Ok he left his body. May he rest in peace there wherever he may be situated now. I guess there in his new existence he will also do that sometimes. I was reading in this regard somewhere that even there in the so called spiritual world "people" if the beings there could also be called as such, do that also sometimes. Anyway he, the person called ones Prabhupada or A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami is not here on Earth anymore. He rather died already or "left his body". I watched ones a video which was filmed while they buried him. They wraped him or rather his dead body in a clean cloth and buried him with the feet downwords in a specially with salt prepared hole or pit which was filled with salt and earth afterwords. In other parts of the world the dead body of someone is allowed to rest in peace in a coffin. But thats India, other countries, other customs.
On the Internet I found written in this regard: Main Methods of Disposal of Dead Body
"Apart from the above three exposures of body for being consumed by vultures and other birds or beasts, being preserved in caves, and mummifying are the three methods which have been used since the ancient times. To bury a holy body (according to Shastras) one should go to the east or north of the village, dig a pit about eight feet deep, then water thereon thrice, spread the Darbha grass on the bottom of the pit, deck the dead body with garlands, sandalwood paste and salt, deposit the body in the pit with prayer, and put a water pot next to the body while reciting the mantras."
____
- www.goswamisamajdelhi.com/history/burial
- "A dead Sannyasi is always buried in the sitting attitude of religious contemplation with the legs crossed. The grave may be dug with a side receptacle for the corpse so that the earth, on being filled in does not fall on it. The corpse is bathed and rubbed with ashes and clad in a new reddish-colored shirt, with a rosary round neck. The begging wallet with some flour and pulse are placed in the grave, and also a gourd staff. Salt is put round the body to preserve it, and earthen pots put over the head. Sometimes coconuts are broken on the skull, to crack it and give exit to the soul. Perhaps the idea of burial and of preserving the corpse with salt is that the body of an ascetic does not need to be purified by fire from the appetites and passions of the flesh like that of on ordinary Hindu; it is already cleansed of all earthly frailty by his austerities, and the belief may therefore have originally been that such a man would carry his body with him to the afterworld or to absorption with the deity. The burial of a Sannyasi is often accompanid with music and signs of rejoicing." more »
- "Samadhi Vidhi Ceremony" in India
From Chakra.org: "Disciples then placed Sridhar Swami's cadaver at the bottom of the pit. Some devotees, including Bhakti Caru, had gotten down to help perform the final arati, while the crowd at ground level were continuously singing the Hare Krsna maha-mantra. After the arati, devotees filled the pit with several sacksful of salt, then started throwing flower petals and garlands from ground level, and finally filled the pit with earth. A long stick had been placed on top of Maharaja's divine body which was now fully buried in accordance with the rites prescribed by the Gaudiya Vaisnava acaryas for sannyasis; the top portion of this stick could be seen above ground level, even after the pit was filled." more »
"He reasons ill who tells that Vaishnavas die. When thou are living still in sound!" ~ Bhakti Vinod Thakur
So as the proverb goes nothing is so sure as death. Of course some may say no Prabhupada cannot really be considered dead and was buried in Vrindavan, he, the person, is rather eternal and lives forever. He just left or departed his material body which he "spiritualized" by doing "devotional service" and eating only "prasadam", before leaving, whatewer that may mean... So Ok he left his body. May he rest in peace there wherever he may be situated now. I guess there in his new existence he will also do that sometimes. I was reading in this regard somewhere that even there in the so called spiritual world "people" if the beings there could also be called as such, do that also sometimes. Anyway he, the person called ones Prabhupada or A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami is not here on Earth anymore. He rather died already or "left his body". I watched ones a video which was filmed while they buried him. They wraped him or rather his dead body in a clean cloth and buried him with the feet downwords in a specially with salt prepared hole or pit which was filled with salt and earth afterwords. In other parts of the world the dead body of someone is allowed to rest in peace in a coffin. But thats India, other countries, other customs.
On the Internet I found written in this regard: Main Methods of Disposal of Dead Body
"Apart from the above three exposures of body for being consumed by vultures and other birds or beasts, being preserved in caves, and mummifying are the three methods which have been used since the ancient times. To bury a holy body (according to Shastras) one should go to the east or north of the village, dig a pit about eight feet deep, then water thereon thrice, spread the Darbha grass on the bottom of the pit, deck the dead body with garlands, sandalwood paste and salt, deposit the body in the pit with prayer, and put a water pot next to the body while reciting the mantras."
____
- www.goswamisamajdelhi.com/history/burial
- "A dead Sannyasi is always buried in the sitting attitude of religious contemplation with the legs crossed. The grave may be dug with a side receptacle for the corpse so that the earth, on being filled in does not fall on it. The corpse is bathed and rubbed with ashes and clad in a new reddish-colored shirt, with a rosary round neck. The begging wallet with some flour and pulse are placed in the grave, and also a gourd staff. Salt is put round the body to preserve it, and earthen pots put over the head. Sometimes coconuts are broken on the skull, to crack it and give exit to the soul. Perhaps the idea of burial and of preserving the corpse with salt is that the body of an ascetic does not need to be purified by fire from the appetites and passions of the flesh like that of on ordinary Hindu; it is already cleansed of all earthly frailty by his austerities, and the belief may therefore have originally been that such a man would carry his body with him to the afterworld or to absorption with the deity. The burial of a Sannyasi is often accompanid with music and signs of rejoicing." more »
- "Samadhi Vidhi Ceremony" in IndiaFrom Chakra.org: "Disciples then placed Sridhar Swami's cadaver at the bottom of the pit. Some devotees, including Bhakti Caru, had gotten down to help perform the final arati, while the crowd at ground level were continuously singing the Hare Krsna maha-mantra. After the arati, devotees filled the pit with several sacksful of salt, then started throwing flower petals and garlands from ground level, and finally filled the pit with earth. A long stick had been placed on top of Maharaja's divine body which was now fully buried in accordance with the rites prescribed by the Gaudiya Vaisnava acaryas for sannyasis; the top portion of this stick could be seen above ground level, even after the pit was filled." more »
"He reasons ill who tells that Vaishnavas die. When thou are living still in sound!" ~ Bhakti Vinod Thakur
Last edited by harsi on Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:26 am, edited 104 times in total.
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kamalamala1
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:46 pm
Re: Zonal Acharya, Living Guru, Ritvik , Self Effulgent Acharya?
If you about my text
it writen about not Prabhupad but about two ways of spirituality
About wath is more relavant for our life today
There are two ways of spirituality nivrity and pravrity marg.
nivrity means denaying everthing ,body ,mind, life , own self all the warld
this way is maybe for hermits for sanyases for tantreests and not at all for evry of them ,but surly not for societes,it is very difficult questionable way
Pravrity marg means accepting everything including body own self and wath to speak of life as Divine manifistation.
This way is deffenatly much better it is very usefull for societe and for everybody
Srimad Bhagavatam mainly pointing on nivrity marg.Since maybe also because it was spoken to the person who in a week going to die.
And the present holistic spirituality and even mahbaharat mainly on pravrity marg and varnashrama also based on praviti marg
The goal of both margs the same make strong conaction with God.
And it is harmful and useless task to preach to societe nivriti marg
That is why Srmad bhagavatam from the begining was secret it meant was for small group ,and as it is writen in it in second sloka it made for paramhamsas means sanyasyes not for societes not for womans means mothers and childrens not at al l for young mens , not at all because they are not capable ,just because one should enjoy life should be positive to life, to body, to people
and evrything else otherwise wath kind of societe will come out,
can you imagin people taking burth and from there childhood just thinking about death about how bad is the life, after some time how bad is there wifes there childs and wath a terrible thing is family life.And instead making experianses ,trying to reaveal
ther own soul here in cocreation, they all they long from childhood trying to think about death, is this positive is this helpfull for societe,does this wath God want?
one can chouse
Life is such a wanderfull gift, why we should denay it, all creation including death is divine and filled with divine magical energy.
And God is so amaising that he made all this creation
he present in it [virat rupa]in evry its parth and seeing it you can feel his presence
[This is pravrity marg]
or life is horrible panishment ,this warld is jail
and most of the people camels dogs and e.t.c
wifes and childrens are jackals and tigers
body is the sack of stool, sences is the road to death
ladyes is from evil
and so on
only God is great
one can chouse this also
but wath he wiil attain with such an outlook
but one thing is abvious that societes cannot be based on such outlook, it is not possible
So how should be the new spirituality [ecspesialy for ones who influensed by a old traditions], wich is aplyable for modern life
for society
it writen about not Prabhupad but about two ways of spirituality
About wath is more relavant for our life today
There are two ways of spirituality nivrity and pravrity marg.
nivrity means denaying everthing ,body ,mind, life , own self all the warld
this way is maybe for hermits for sanyases for tantreests and not at all for evry of them ,but surly not for societes,it is very difficult questionable way
Pravrity marg means accepting everything including body own self and wath to speak of life as Divine manifistation.
This way is deffenatly much better it is very usefull for societe and for everybody
Srimad Bhagavatam mainly pointing on nivrity marg.Since maybe also because it was spoken to the person who in a week going to die.
And the present holistic spirituality and even mahbaharat mainly on pravrity marg and varnashrama also based on praviti marg
The goal of both margs the same make strong conaction with God.
And it is harmful and useless task to preach to societe nivriti marg
That is why Srmad bhagavatam from the begining was secret it meant was for small group ,and as it is writen in it in second sloka it made for paramhamsas means sanyasyes not for societes not for womans means mothers and childrens not at al l for young mens , not at all because they are not capable ,just because one should enjoy life should be positive to life, to body, to people
and evrything else otherwise wath kind of societe will come out,
can you imagin people taking burth and from there childhood just thinking about death about how bad is the life, after some time how bad is there wifes there childs and wath a terrible thing is family life.And instead making experianses ,trying to reaveal
ther own soul here in cocreation, they all they long from childhood trying to think about death, is this positive is this helpfull for societe,does this wath God want?
one can chouse
Life is such a wanderfull gift, why we should denay it, all creation including death is divine and filled with divine magical energy.
And God is so amaising that he made all this creation
he present in it [virat rupa]in evry its parth and seeing it you can feel his presence
[This is pravrity marg]
or life is horrible panishment ,this warld is jail
and most of the people camels dogs and e.t.c
wifes and childrens are jackals and tigers
body is the sack of stool, sences is the road to death
ladyes is from evil
and so on
only God is great
one can chouse this also
but wath he wiil attain with such an outlook
but one thing is abvious that societes cannot be based on such outlook, it is not possible
So how should be the new spirituality [ecspesialy for ones who influensed by a old traditions], wich is aplyable for modern life
for society
Re: Zonal Acharya, Living Guru, Ritvik , Self Effulgent Acharya?
Thats a good question. I always consult and pray to my inner guide, whoever that my be which I don't know yet exactly, (I just made the experience that this person or power indeed exists), in times of need or while searching for some inspirations. Just a few days ago I prayed, at least I call it like that, in my mind to my inner consultant and guide to give me some inspiration what I should write as an answer to you and "Prajalpaspeaker". Yeasterday morning all of a sudden the inspiration appeared spontaniously in my mind so I wrote my former comment to you in the evening. Some pray in this way to Jesus, and feel his presents, indeed whatever one may say the divine guidance is accesible for everyone who, with an open and peacefull mind is praying or searching for some guidance and divine inspiration. Yes I would also encourage everyone to talk to (pray) and consult this his or hers inner guide and consultant of life.Gaura-vani wrote:Why not talk with A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami..?
Open up your mind and heart to new experiences of consciousness.
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Nanda-grama
- Posts: 272
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:13 pm
- Location: Moscow
!
It is great experience which both you described!
Re: Zonal Acharya, Living Guru, Ritvik , Self Effulgent Acharya?
I found a text online which resonates well with me and which I could not have written any better. It was written by Doreen Virtue. Therein she writes:
"I choose to stay centered in the awareness of love, God, and my true self. In this center, like the eye of a hurricane, all is tranquil, safe, and peaceful. My power, wisdom, and peace comes from staying in this center, and I ask for spiritual support from God and his angels to keep my mind aligned with truth. I willingly detach from the material world, knowing that by so doing, I can effectively help others. I trust God to provide my every need, and I allow His omnipotent wisdom to direct me in all ways. I accept a steady diet of love and joy, knowing that I deserve happiness and health. I willingly and lovingly release all ego judgment about myself and other people, knowing that everything I want comes from my decision to experience the oneness of all life. I know I am meant to be a healer and a teacher for God, and I now accept my mission fully without delay or reservation. I surrender all behaviors that would block me from hearing my inner voice, and I happily trust my inner guide to lead me along the lightworkers way, where I joyfully serve as an instrument of love. I release any doubt or fears I may have about fulfilling my Divine mission, and I now commit to staying aware of my inner Voice for God. I know that this is the only tool I will ever need for my own healing and the healing of the world." ~ www.thelifeintended.com
"I choose to stay centered in the awareness of love, God, and my true self. In this center, like the eye of a hurricane, all is tranquil, safe, and peaceful. My power, wisdom, and peace comes from staying in this center, and I ask for spiritual support from God and his angels to keep my mind aligned with truth. I willingly detach from the material world, knowing that by so doing, I can effectively help others. I trust God to provide my every need, and I allow His omnipotent wisdom to direct me in all ways. I accept a steady diet of love and joy, knowing that I deserve happiness and health. I willingly and lovingly release all ego judgment about myself and other people, knowing that everything I want comes from my decision to experience the oneness of all life. I know I am meant to be a healer and a teacher for God, and I now accept my mission fully without delay or reservation. I surrender all behaviors that would block me from hearing my inner voice, and I happily trust my inner guide to lead me along the lightworkers way, where I joyfully serve as an instrument of love. I release any doubt or fears I may have about fulfilling my Divine mission, and I now commit to staying aware of my inner Voice for God. I know that this is the only tool I will ever need for my own healing and the healing of the world." ~ www.thelifeintended.com
Open up your mind and heart to new experiences of consciousness.
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prajalpaspeaker
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:51 am
- Contact:
Re: Zonal Acharya, Living Guru, Ritvik , Self Effulgent Acharya?
Yeah, nice Gaura-vani, how you met with the Sampradaya Acharya. It is not so hard to do.
"I will continue to live, in my books" ACBhaktivedanta Swami
"I will continue to live, in my books" ACBhaktivedanta Swami