Funny question

[kamalamala]

I have a question which will be interesting espessialy for the people who was in Hare Krishna movement,or maybe they are now also.
ISCON philosophy was pushing the idea that GOD is a
person in a human form with two hands exactly like us.And more then that with the cows and e.t.c
Since it was declared that there books it mean there ideas and maybe ISCON will exist 10000 years then naturally let say after 500 or 1000 year the technology will be so advanced that Hare Krsnas will like to go to preach on the other planet where is completely different
humans,Let say with no hand and even likesome unbelievable creature.

Lets imagine the Hare Krishnas coming to that planet and beginning to preach they are saying to them that you Know there are God and he looks exactly like we the Earthians with two hand and two lags and He is living in Goloka Vrindavana the most central planet in Spiritual Sky and there are lot of Cows
and other like us people,and you should make the statue of Human like us Suprim and warship him.

it is fan to imagine this but in reality it is serious point .

One can think that the central point in the creation is Goloka as it described in the books and i can agree with that but then after death the fortunate souls go there and they live with caws and have eternal fan. I can also eccept this with my understanding of things .
But how about pour humans from other planet they don't have chance to go to Goloka or if they go
there they will become like us with 5 senses on a head and what about caws what if the caw like forms on there planet are really wild animals .Very stupid question

It absolutely humancentric simple understanding of reality from my point of view.
I know that Lord came to our planet as us 5000 years ago.
And His name was KRSNA
BUt i also know that He comes to many billions planets in there forms as KRSNA on there languages
it is same person no need to make one image of God the only one and most one.
I think he is the most being in essence in person not in the form isn't it?
Although i personally 100% sure and believe that KRSNA is the most Supreme being and also i believe that there must be Goloka but i will never accept this kind of image of it .

I am sure that Lord Chaitanya and Goswamis had completely much more waste and broad understanding and image.
Dear Hari can you please tell am i correct or not.
And please tell how do deal with this issue's how are your understanding of KRSNA.?

[kamalamala]

By the wya maybe i am wronge maybe Prabhupad nad Bhaktisidhanta had another point of vew about above mentioned isue please correct me if it so.

[kamalamala]

i JUST GOT AN Understanding how it can be one Goloka for all creatures, since it out of demensional Place it is complitly possible that all the creatures from all the planets see Krsna in the acustomed form and see others in there acustomed way and there are no contradiction it is afcousre difficult to imagine anyway but it is 100 % sure that it is not so simple as most of so called bhaktas thinkinig and no so primitive

[Hari]

The essence of what we are is not dependent on our form. The essence of what is God is not dependent on form. Although we express ourselves through form, the essence expresses itself through its energy. According to how we are, we express ourselves in forms that are most compatible with the manner in which we share, relate, and interact with our environment and association.

On earth, this is best done as a human; on some other planet, it is best done according to how people look there. If you were to live on another planet, you would feel as essentially the same you. You would have essentially the same relationship with God and God would have essentially the same relationship with you. All that is important is the same.

Since we live on earth and need to deal with the manner in which we choose to utilize our energy and make choices, and since evolution has much more to do with these choices than any other factor, the forms through which our choices manifest are less significant. Therefore, why bother discussing the manner in which life manifests on other planets? Since there is no benefit, it is not discussed. Perhaps it has been mentioned in passing by various authorities. I once had a talk with Prabhupada about the same point and he said basically the same thing that I wrote in the start of my reply to you.

When one attains an abode visualized throughout one’s life, adjusting to the changes in how things ‘look’ in the new environment is not difficult.

I do not demand that God looks according to a conception I have seen in paintings or in the Deity form, for there are differences even amongst them! I am mainly concerned with how God feels, how God sounds, how God reciprocates with me, and how I can join in God’s play. These things are constants that are always important and always existent. I do not demand that God look the same all the time, for if God wishes to look different, I am sure this will be fun too! I can also look different to reciprocate with these changes.

It does not bother me that this topic is not publicly discussed amongst devotees. It is not something everyone would worry about. Once one accepts our energy as the essence, the manner in which our energy chooses to appear is a matter of the choices we make according to what we see is best! And that is fine.

[kamalamala]

Thank You for your replay

It is very detailed and all covering.
I think in a same way.
But wath about caws?
Why caws?
I personally love caws,but still.?

I think anyway althought as you said these is not important questioin for devotees i got a feeling from Prabhupads books and all the movement as a stonge force that pushing God to have the most important form as human and it was evrywhere in Srila Prabhupads books. Even four hands forms was less then two hands and there was many coments on it.And also a lot of indications that this planet is the most important planet in the universe.
I think that since many devotees tend to think in the way that humanlike form is the central form it makes a lot of difficulties for them to understand GOD/.
I can add afcourse God in any form is the most central but not form
but He as a person.
Form is secondary is nt it?

Sorry that i am asking maybe useless question for me it is interesting and i am chousing to ask wath is interesting for me.

[kamalamala]

Can we say so that in Goloka thera are no Vrndavan no caws and no trees w,wath is realy there is the essense of Vrndavan the essense of the realationships Between gopis and Lord between caws and Lord and so on.?Its mean pure love.

[kamalamala]

Dear Hari

I feel that this isue is realy important since it is realy broading our awarnessof God.
It giving the real feeling that God is not captured in the form that he is unthinkable,yet he is here in the form of Human.

[Hari]

Hey people, this is not a private discussion between me and Kamalamala! Anyone can comment as they like here!

But it seems to me that the inclusion of cows and cow herders is to some extent related to this being the most idyllic life conceivable to people at that time. As these conceptions of the divine are related to a culturally based spiritual tradition, naturally the environment is related to the highest vision of that culture.

The reason modern people have difficulty with this vision is due to their not sharing the ideal of it being the highest vision of existence. Perhaps if were we to establish a tradition today, the Supreme would be compatible to a more modern culture.

I feel that we are part of the creation of our desired destinations, even when we wish to reside with the Supreme. As the Supreme is infinitely capable of being all things to all people, as He and She are and always have been throughout all time, when groups of people intensely share and embrace the same vision of their ultimate reality, it is not difficult for the Supreme to accommodate them in that reality when the time is right.

In short, it seems to me that the divine beings work with us to create that divine atmosphere according to our mutual energetic connection to it. This sound reasonable to me, and my personal experience has been compatible with this idea.

Spirit is energy and energy may or may not have a recognizable form. Electricity is energy, as are the rays of the sun, yet we see these forms according to their manifestations. Energy flows from a source and it is important to know the source. Different forms of energy flow from me regardless of the form of the body I take as my energy is dependent on me and not my form. Yet, you know me by my form and relate to me through a formulated consciousness. Consciousness is characterized by sensual perception and the feeling this creates. When form is linked to the personal source of the energy, interactions with that personality are heightened.

The form can change and does change. In some cases, this can happen at the will of a powerful person. Yet the power is the same. Form allows us to focus that power and therefore it is an integral part of our existence.

That the divine wishes to manifest in various forms for the sake of heightening connections to differing beings is perfectly compatible with the all-loving and caring nature of the divine.

I personally lost interest in associating with the topmost, supreme, original, best of the best forms, some time ago. I want to associate with the divine that wants to associate with me, regardless of the form that takes. All that matters to me is the connection and the loving reciprocation.

For some, it is very important to be connected to the best. You will also find such persons eagerly attaching themselves to powerful humans as they build their identity on the shoulders of "great" persons. It is important for their social position and thus their feelings of self-worth that others know they have such intimate connections. People have been name dropping since the beginning of time. The saying, "It is not what you know that counts but who you know, " is equally valid amongst spiritualists. Some think that being connected with the best makes them the best. Nothing new here.

[kamalamala]

Thank you very much for such a nice and very deep and clear answer.
It realy giving lot off space to realy rejuvinate the understanding of GOD.

Thank you very much

[Prisni]

I just read this now, and it made me laugh. Why?
When I read your description, Hari, I find that the fruit does not fall far from the tree. Although I am not a follower of you today, and you say that you don't even want followers, and I have a different philosophy, still I find that what you write is very similar to how I see it.

Well, that is the meaning of teacher, I guess, even if it was far in the past. You learn to reason in a particular way, and even if many years have passed, and much have happened, that reasoning still remains.

This is also how I see the gaudiya vaisnava tradition. Not to try to act like medieval Indian monks, or trying to copy our warped idea of Indian culture. But rather a tradition, a system of throughts that has been handed down through generations. And a system where every generation is free to express it, and develop it in their own way. What is handed down is thought patterns, ways to think, and not static dogma.

I remember the ISKCON time, and in retrospect I don't like it at all, although I liked the lifestyle very much. So many things were just ridiculous. Just to live there was a great austerity and humilation. And all this suffering, just to get hold of the philosophy. I am sure there are better ways, but there were not then. I did not know any other way. Therefore I endured and stayed. My mind (body) is now ruined, and will never be repaired in this lifetime. But still, I got the gem of the philosophy handed over to me, and don't care for what it cost me.

The gem is not ISKCON dogma, which sometimes is pretty ridiculous. It is not to try to be Indian, which is also pretty ridiculous for a westerner. It is a way of thinking, a way of grabbing the philosophy from thin air. A way to connect to that thinking. It is not be always dependant on he spiritual master, like a baby is dependant on its mother. It is to stand on your own philosophical legs. And that is also the purpose of a teacher, as I see it. Not to keep the student dependant forever, but to give the knowledge so the student can stand for him/her self, and walk away from the teacher, and to continue to expand the way of thinking in another way.

When I listen, I can hear the previous gaudiya vaisnavas speak. They are very eager to help out and tell me what they know. It is not what ISKCON says. It is what Prabhupada said, but in a different way, with a different understanding. And it what you, Hari, say too, I see now. Thats how I feel to be in a tradition. To not be alone, but to always get help to understand philosophy. I can put a question in my mind, and the answer often appear in my mind after a while. And I also understand that this is what is meant, when the guru is glorified. Not the external ISKCON thing, but the gift of mystical connection. Even beyond space and time, and definitively beyond western understanding.
This is not empty words, like it used to be in ISKCON, but reality. I am very, very happy to have received this great gift. This connection to something greater than I am.

[Hari]

Hey Prishni, cool that you wrote.

I sent you an email some time back but your address did not work. Please send me an email to my email address or else write to me through this forum in a personal message. I want to say hi!

I liked what you wrote and I agree with you. I would adjust one thing you wrote (if I were to repeat it to someone else). Instead of saying, "walk away from the teacher," I would say, "Walk alongside, standing tall, as a strong and powerful individual ready to share and be of service as you desire."

Much love to you and good luck.

Vänligen må bättre och starkt meditera på din hälsa. Visualisera din styrka och du kommer att finna det. Du är oerhört intelligent och begåvad. Du kommer att hitta vägen.