Some thoughts I would like to share.

[Gaura]

I thought about how wonderful that gradually our barriers,limitations are broken.

For several years I was distributing books in Moscow and after 1998(revolution) I came to Petersburg. We were worm at that time and bewildered(we left ISCON, but more or less had the same mentality). I remember, at first time when I didn't go to mangala arati in Petersburg I felt that's it, I never make it- never back to God. But gradually, after some days being so "fallen" I realized, wait a minute - how path to God can be connected with this old, indian rituals.So this barrier was overcame and I understood the truth a bit more.
One day we were siting in the Temple in Petersburg and speaking about ISCONs activities. One "authoritative and advanced" ex devotee said to me that we were zombis when were distributing books like anything. It hurts me so mach I couldn't believe that sacrilege could be even pronounced, even tears started to come. And after some time I realized that it was truth, we were agitated and exploited.
I remember so many such an examples of overcoming this kind barriers. But when I am looking back nowadays it seems so silly all that bandage. I got free now from that time things, partially, something still left, but I'm working on it(joke).

Dhana-da gave a question about God and all the things written in the Scriptures, and actually I had also that questions. But now I gradually have realization that all this writings has very small to do with our reality. We don't know who we are - body, mind, soul, or what? Of course we read that we are souls tiny-piny, indescribably small parts and so on. And so what. Such lifeless description I don't think could give realization to anybody. It's just a theory. And being in that deep chaos about our self we try to understand pastimes of God. I don't know, now I'm speaking about myself, it will never work. First I have to understand myself. I think, to reject every Scriptures and being a little bit anarchist would help. In that case there will be nothing to keep us from going further in our understanding of reality.
So many religions proclaim that their way is the only and best path. Actually beliefs can only manipulate people but not reality. Reality doesn't care about any beliefs. It lives it's own life from time immemorial.

In my opinion, from all religions - Zen, if it could be called a religion is close to the reality since it based on direct perceptions. There is no Scriptures there. It's upgoing process. One has to just by concentrating on his self and reality try to reach the Truth.

I think we, being fully aware have to just realize the Truth, theory can't help(despite of how painful it's to accept). Only ones resolution and efforts to go deep inside can be helpful.

Just some thoughts...

[dasosmin]

If we help to stop a fire out of spontanous feeling doing something Good Whats the Loss???SO whats the books about???

Why did You beleive so firmly in that Guys statements??IS HE YOUR eternal Guru???Or Is it Your own Envy popping up?Or is it Your rebelliosness against surrender TO GOD??Or is just you desire to not give up Your sex desires etc??ASK YOURSELF honestly thoose questions

So you think so many things But everybodie has donne that since time immemorial BUT where are they now ??Its Good to try to understand BUT why not try to understand Why Srila Prabhupada Wrote thoose books and why He wanted them distributed and Why are they distributed.???

To just try to feel what one feel more Would be the right thing Then NO FEELING are wrong AND whatever anybodie DOES is coorect.????Thats insanity.Why is it in any area rules??The reason we want all our feelingsaccepted AS they Now are Is actually BASED upon WE WANT to be the central important INjoyer IN our life.The hand wants to eat before the stomach.So knoledge is not Dangerous,but WE are just so attached to our previus conditioning so we feeling strange when the purification takes place.INDRA within the Pig Bodie didnt want to lieve it Whe Lord BRAHMA COME AND ASKED HIM TO COME BACK TO heaven.

So first of all must one by intelligent analyse understandThat Im the soul within the bodie.That can be donne on may diffent ways but the basic description is to concider if one is a material form or some matter within the bod?ly form.That can be rejected by the fact That all the cells are changed within 7 years and I will be me even after an heavy accident after wich my bodie might externally look completly diffrent.So neither some specific chemical ingridience can be the self neither some special bodily form can be the self, Allthou the condiotioned souls are defintily bevildered by the bodily form.

So understanding that one has diffrent feelings within diffrent bodies, opens ones eyees to the fact that one might just now be bevildered by the fact of the bodily conditiones one is within at the present moment.

First one must understand therefore THAT one can develop perverted feelingsDUE TO BEEING covered over by material energie.OTHERWICE al crazy peoples feelings are allright And thus we have a mad mans paradise.

So a real intelligent PERSON never Think his Intelligens is perfect(due to thinking that param atma is providing him/her intelligens according to his/hers conditioned desires) but allways confirms his thoughts thrue scriptures and saints.I leave you here and see how you react upon thoose thoughts,Haribolo. To Praise The Lord is very powerfull by the way :O)

[GPandit]

dasosmin, have you realized these things or are you merely regurgitating what you've heard? Something in your post doesn't sound genuine to me. And whenever I heard the words "intelligence" and "intelligent person" used like that, I break out into hives.

I'm not flaming you, but it just doesn't sound real to me.

GP

[pamu]

Same here. I just feel exhausted after a few lines.

[dasosmin]

What do you want me to reply?+Write what you want me to think and dont read what I think.

Is there anything Wrong distributing Srila Prabhupadas Books??It sounded like that to me??Is there any wrong to help to estingish a fire for people one feel and understand one should help Allthou want dont now exactly who they are MORE than they are supposed to looked upon IN A TRUE WORLD RELIGION as ONE COMMON FATHER THE ALMIGHTY and thus they ALL are our Brothers and sisters??

Whats beeing a ZOMBIE about that IF ITS authorized By a person WHO CAN ACTUALLY SEE????AND WHO IS THE PERSON WHO Gonna BE THE LINK for you to get any kind of mercy???

If you "blindly" following a Pewrson who is actually seeingTHEN you will also be finally abel to see.

To just do what one feel for is the same principel for all the conditioned souils like animals as snakes,beasts etc.UNLESS You are a true liberated Person Your spontanous feelings WILL BE conditioned OR not??? What will be your action If you not truly liberated??pure or impure???

What is all bhakti yoga about???BHAKTI???Whta is the symtom of Bhakti???

Who is a devotee of Krishna?He who si a devotee of HIs DEVOTEE??

So even if one is "blindly" devoteed to a true devotee STILL ONE GETTHE MERCY if ne serve that Devotee as He requested you to do.Apost man doesnt have to now the meaning of the letter his carrying STILL HE GET PAYED for doingthe work he is told to do.


To think rules in its self is the goal is ofcourse NOT BHAKTI but IT BE(everythin is possibel:O) ) if ONE IS TOLD TO DO SO By the Master.SO we dont worship rules as GOD but the God and His Pure devotees OR is there some ABSOLUT SPEKULATION we should rather concider???

To Serve the instruktions THE VANI IS AS good AS SERVING GOD or and The Master or and His representativ.


Are we wanting to learn ABSOLUT Knoledge and Action Or relativ=speculations.???

To JUst have a desire in Ones heart to take the instructions of the Master warmly to Ones heart one will finally attain all success.Srila Prabhupada ofcourse writes that one should also try to finds the ways and means to carry them out.

So some think this and some feel like that Thats why Srila Prabhupada kindly helped as to gain The Holy name and the Vedas.

Whats the problem with this.

Ofcourse freedom of CHOICE MUSTaLLWAYS BE THERE But still nothing is obtain without practice or struggle.S to think everything must be allways nice on the way to spirituel success Is like demanding That there should be no more deseas or material bodies mmmm .I migth MIssed your mood But it doesntnessaairy mean I missed all the meaning of spirituell life BUT you are probobly so intelligent that You can guide me to the right path and enlightened me What i missed???

To find fault, we all can do, That is a must with our faulty senses and thus faulty sens perception of reality.


W y a t b



10000 billion ants cannnot be wrong????

So to Follow even blindly Srila PrabhupadasINstrc?ctions for distributing

[GPandit]

Dasosmin,

Welcome to the realm of spiritual life. I welcome you because it is obvious that you are very new to these things. One thing you will find helpful: know your audience. If you see their eyes glazing over, it's time to stop grandstanding.As much as I dislike getting involved with tit for tat posting, I really cannot resist. I'm not going to reply to each of your points, because I really don't believe that they are very well thought out. Your posts remind me of when I was 18 years old and trying to become a fiery preacher of the Hare Krishna movement. It's strictly BTDT for me, and probably most others who regularly come to this site.

Dasosmin, you take up too much space with your posts--both on this forum and the Good Old Days. And you quote endlessly, which causes problems for the site. NOTE: Read "What You Should Not Do and Why" on Forum page. I made those mistakes also. I will reply to one and only one of your "points"--following, or what you like to call "blind" following. That is the "herd" mentality, and if you persist by not thinking for yourself, you will perish as the Bhagavad gita has told you. Find the verse yourself, don't ask me. If you follow blindly, you will sit back and allow atrocities of varying degrees to occur. Later, you may take part in them....

Quit preaching to the ex-choir, it's a waste of time. Horrendously dull stuff. No potency. Amazing that you could come to this site and not have a clue as to what is being offered here. That you would just bring your baggage and blind following. I'd recommend you listen to some of the lectures offered here, with an open mind. You are here. And it is Now. Obviously something has brought you here. If you don't like what you find here, that's fine. I wish you good luck in your life.

"I'd rather live one day as a lion, then 100 years as a sheep."

-Orson Welles

[Gaura]

GPandit nicely said. I thought this mount is far behind my power to push. And he did it in another way. Thanks.

[Janus]

I thought about how wonderful that gradually our barriers,limitations are broken.

For several years I was distributing books in Moscow and after 1998(revolution) I came to Petersburg. We were worm at that time and bewildered(we left ISCON, but more or less had the same mentality). I remember, at first time when I didn't go to mangala arati in Petersburg I felt that's it, I never make it- never back to God. But gradually, after some days being so "fallen" I realized, wait a minute - how path to God can be connected with this old, indian rituals.So this barrier was overcame and I understood the truth a bit more.
One day we were siting in the Temple in Petersburg and speaking about ISCONs activities. One "authoritative and advanced" ex devotee said to me that we were zombis when were distributing books like anything. It hurts me so mach I couldn't believe that sacrilege could be even pronounced, even tears started to come. And after some time I realized that it was truth, we were agitated and exploited.
I remember so many such an examples of overcoming this kind barriers. But when I am looking back nowadays it seems so silly all that bandage. I got free now from that time things, partially, something still left, but I'm working on it(joke).

Dhana-da gave a question about God and all the things written in the Scriptures, and actually I had also that questions. But now I gradually have realization that all this writings has very small to do with our reality. We don't know who we are - body, mind, soul, or what? Of course we read that we are souls tiny-piny, indescribably small parts and so on. And so what. Such lifeless description I don't think could give realization to anybody. It's just a theory. And being in that deep chaos about our self we try to understand pastimes of God. I don't know, now I'm speaking about myself, it will never work. First I have to understand myself. I think, to reject every Scriptures and being a little bit anarchist would help. In that case there will be nothing to keep us from going further in our understanding of reality.
So many religions proclaim that their way is the only and best path. Actually beliefs can only manipulate people but not reality. Reality doesn't care about any beliefs. It lives it's own life from time immemorial.

In my opinion, from all religions - Zen, if it could be called a religion is close to the reality since it based on direct perceptions. There is no Scriptures there. It's upgoing process. One has to just by concentrating on his self and reality try to reach the Truth.

I think we, being fully aware have to just realize the Truth, theory can't help(despite of how painful it's to accept). Only ones resolution and efforts to go deep inside can be helpful.

Just some thoughts...

All thoughts consist of symbols and what may be termed "game rules" for their manipulation. Thoughts are "good" to an extent but one must realize that words are not the things they represent and that there is a downside to language in that it molds perception and constrains thought to a very great extent.

You spoke of Zen which does in fact have a conceptual perspective, if not "scripture" in the Tao of LaoTzu which begins with an explanation of language as being metaphorical.

This understanding only gradually dawned in the West beginning in the early 19th century but unfortunately, has never become common understanding, filtering down to the general masses.People thus think that words are the things that they merely represent and that logical explanations are absolutes.

I have always doubted that there is just one spritual process
by which one can advance spiritually, for it there were only one then that woulf imply that God was closed minded, unable to think outside of the box.

We are all the products of our conditioning prabhu. What animals receive through instinct we amass through cultural conditioning. Those world views which we imbibe are internalized very early on, we are not even aware of them, and their programs run on automatic. I wouldn't feel so bad, we are all conditioned to be zombies, becoming free to be ourselves takes thought and work and the sacrifice of guarantees.

Most of us accept religion or some other ideological system not because it is logical, but because we are compelled to do so to satisfy an emotional need. Most do not think for themselves but accept whatever is delivered
to them prepackaged. Whatever explanation that is given us usually suffices unless some life experience, some "betrayal of spirit" comes along to challenge it's varacity. None of these systems deliver the satisfaction that we crave of them for the simple fact that bad things happen to good people too. The minds that crave certitude crave explataions as systems of control in general.

Once we accept something to be "true", once we elevate a generality to a Platonic absolute, once we accept a belief to be knowledge, then our existential pressure is relieved and we never have to worry, ot think about it again. Even blind faith belief can satisfy our emotional need for certitude regarding general principles. We forget or we have never learned that belief equals ignorance, we usually consider exactly the opposite.

[harsi]

Janus wrote:

"Most of us accept religion or some other ideological system not because it is logical, but because we are compelled to do so to satisfy an emotional need. Most do not think for themselves but accept whatever is delivered to them prepackaged."

This answer is showing the scientist in you, but is a scientist not also an emotional being or someone who is trying to satisfy his "emotional need" if one can call it so, for understanding things logical and to find out moore and moore knowledge about the things which are bothering him or make him to think about?

[pamu]

In so many words; everybody is just trying to get along.

[harsi]

Pamu wrote:
"In so many words; everybody is just trying to get along."

I would say that an important role plays also the motivation one my have in this regard. Someone may try to get along, how you say, with the motivation to find out moore and moore things which are important for him and his understanding of things, relevant to his own life, development, or evolution, and may take the posibility to be in conection by e-mail with others, ( thanks to Hari and all who make this site accesible all over the world) who have made and developed theyr own realization and understanding of things, as an opportunity to satisfy this need of him, whereas others might well have other motivations in this regard. I would say, everyone according to what he thinks is best for him and is satisfying his emotional needs, how Janus would say.

Of course when it comes to judge or give an opinion, what is better or worth thats, I think, a whole other matter. Who should be the judge and what should be that what should motivate him in his jugement or opinion?

But I see I am walking here in circles. But that is fine with me, as long as it is, I hope, a nice circle of friends.
Nice to have you guys all the way around the globe, I appreciate this very much to be with you.

[dasosmin]

So you think YOU ARE SO PURE THAT you are to judge what genuin ???Do you think I gonna accept Your judgement as genuin free from envie and thus free from all materiel conditionings???.I dont feel You are genuin in your so called critics So Whos is there to judge accept the Lord.???You dont sound like a real devotee to me either but rahtersomebodie who wants to tell others I think to.Im here typr of style.Sorry!!!.If I would speak with my biological brother They would say the same thing about the whole idea of thinking material life is not the Goal of life.They dont think its real to claim one should be vegearian either and what to speak of that sexs might not be the best thing to go for in life.So all people around have so many oppinions all the time and Srila PrabhupadasGodBorther neither appriciate his comments and endevours.Or as Srila Prabhupada told one of His dear followers:WHy are You d?sturbed that you godbrothers and sisters doesnt recognice your sincer service efforts I AND KRISHNA see it all and Appriciate it them ISNT THAT ENOUGHT after all??Yes its enought.If Krishan or /and Guru Recognice Your endevours What does it matter what the whole World will think.The whole world together cannot bless You with the Mercy Of Guru and KRISHNA and thats what we ONLY need and deserve If we are seriuos tolerant aspiring attemting souls on the path of devotional service.So excuse me i dont see You as the Supersoul Allthou I should see the Supersoul everywhere.I see You as one of thoose many souls who allways try to push people under their thumb of to proof their right to Judge and condemmed others .In other words trying to grasp the roole of beeing the Supreme Controller wich IS the reason we are still Here,If we wouldnt have that desire we woudnt be here anymore trying to "pee" in our space of sovereignity Or Would You??

dasosmin, have you realized these things or are you merely regurgitating what you've heard? Something in your post doesn't sound genuine to me. And whenever I heard the words "intelligence" and "intelligent person" used like that, I break out into hives.

I'm not flaming you, but it just doesn't sound real to me.

GP

[harsi]

So you think YOU ARE SO PURE THAT you are to judge what genuin ???

Hi dasosmin, I am sorry if you feel somehow misunderstood, that was not the intention of my comment. I just like to share my thoughts with others here. I hope all is OK with you.

[Janus]

Or as Srila Prabhupada told one of His dear followers:WHy are You d?sturbed that you godbrothers and sisters doesnt recognice your sincer service efforts I AND KRISHNA see it all and Appriciate it them ISNT THAT ENOUGHT after all

Yes. Yes it is. Thank you prabhu.
Hari bol