Dear Hari
WE often heared that our mind is our enemy .
And that it is just an instrument.
But in fact we all feel that our mind is the part of us.
So the question arrising is our mind is part of our soul,or it is just an instrument gaved to us and after libaration we will not have it?
And if mind is part of us why it is acting seemingly independant?
mind
Re: mind
Ugh. That is my reaction to this question. Ugh. 
Why bring up the mind? What is to be gained? You can understand the workings of the mind in great detail, but this does nothing to help you deal with it. I spent many years helping people with all things mental and I saw that little was to be gained even after so much endeavor. In those places where there is no life, the mind reigns supreme. I therefore left that pretzel where it belonged. Adios. So when I hear the word, my reaction is to avoid the question.
But this is my forum and I said I would reply. So I am stuck. I am not happy with answering, but I will do so anyway. You might think that I am not addressing your question, but I am in another way.
Controlling, recognizing or pacifying the mind are all accomplished in the act of meditation. If we succeed to immerse ourselves in the essence of being, we feel our conscious energy. This energy flows throughout our body and all sensory exchanges. We feel it flowing as ideas, concepts, values, desires, thoughts, exchanges, communications and in every choice we make. When we are centered in consciousness, everything we use is a servant of our energy. Nothing is independent. Nothing is material, meaningless, valueless, or a burden. Even though we might not be happy with our life's situation, acts of living remain equally important. No part of our life is merely an instrument. Everything is an extension of who we are and has value when it serves our interests. We lose interest in separating the mind, intelligence, or ego to examine them and wonder over their functions and relevance in our life. We project our conscious energy into what we focus upon and express ourselves without worry about how it happens.
Consciousness is homogenous. Essence is homogenous, as is our energy. Because we are superior to the tools which we use to express life, our conscious essence dominates our field of activity, All aspects of what we "are" in this world of physicality are subservient to us. From this perspective, analysis of the the mind has little meaning.
Why bring up the mind? What is to be gained? You can understand the workings of the mind in great detail, but this does nothing to help you deal with it. I spent many years helping people with all things mental and I saw that little was to be gained even after so much endeavor. In those places where there is no life, the mind reigns supreme. I therefore left that pretzel where it belonged. Adios. So when I hear the word, my reaction is to avoid the question.
But this is my forum and I said I would reply. So I am stuck. I am not happy with answering, but I will do so anyway. You might think that I am not addressing your question, but I am in another way.
Controlling, recognizing or pacifying the mind are all accomplished in the act of meditation. If we succeed to immerse ourselves in the essence of being, we feel our conscious energy. This energy flows throughout our body and all sensory exchanges. We feel it flowing as ideas, concepts, values, desires, thoughts, exchanges, communications and in every choice we make. When we are centered in consciousness, everything we use is a servant of our energy. Nothing is independent. Nothing is material, meaningless, valueless, or a burden. Even though we might not be happy with our life's situation, acts of living remain equally important. No part of our life is merely an instrument. Everything is an extension of who we are and has value when it serves our interests. We lose interest in separating the mind, intelligence, or ego to examine them and wonder over their functions and relevance in our life. We project our conscious energy into what we focus upon and express ourselves without worry about how it happens.
Consciousness is homogenous. Essence is homogenous, as is our energy. Because we are superior to the tools which we use to express life, our conscious essence dominates our field of activity, All aspects of what we "are" in this world of physicality are subservient to us. From this perspective, analysis of the the mind has little meaning.
Re: mind
I am sorry for interfere, but these are golden words you are speaking here, dear Hari!
You wrote “Everything is an extension of who we are and has value when it serves our interests” and “Because we are superior to the tools which we use to express life, our conscious essence dominates our field of activity. All aspects of what we "are" in this world of physicality are subservient to us”. It is a real holistic approach which is absolutely opposite to accepted by modern society and even Indian sankhya philosophy approach is based on dividing, deriving and analysis of the dry rest. I love it!
But I have a question. Why the more subtle is an aspect of our “body” the more difficult it is to control it? Is it a question of our awareness of our more subtle aspects? For example, even in our gross body we, being in normal state, cannot control functions of vegetative nervous system. But after a slight practice based on the spreading our consciousness upon respective parts of our body we are acquiring control over them. Or in meditation for example, our mind often interfere and hampering the direct vision or perception. And what should we do in this situation? I, for example, before a meditation simply direct a feeling of gratitude and appreciation to my mind just for what it is and it calms down. It really works, at least for me.
Now I am thinking, is it proper to say “more subtle” aspects? Maybe they are different qualitatively and not vibratory?
You wrote “Everything is an extension of who we are and has value when it serves our interests” and “Because we are superior to the tools which we use to express life, our conscious essence dominates our field of activity. All aspects of what we "are" in this world of physicality are subservient to us”. It is a real holistic approach which is absolutely opposite to accepted by modern society and even Indian sankhya philosophy approach is based on dividing, deriving and analysis of the dry rest. I love it!
But I have a question. Why the more subtle is an aspect of our “body” the more difficult it is to control it? Is it a question of our awareness of our more subtle aspects? For example, even in our gross body we, being in normal state, cannot control functions of vegetative nervous system. But after a slight practice based on the spreading our consciousness upon respective parts of our body we are acquiring control over them. Or in meditation for example, our mind often interfere and hampering the direct vision or perception. And what should we do in this situation? I, for example, before a meditation simply direct a feeling of gratitude and appreciation to my mind just for what it is and it calms down. It really works, at least for me.
Now I am thinking, is it proper to say “more subtle” aspects? Maybe they are different qualitatively and not vibratory?
Re: mind
I like your idea of adjusting how one speaks about the mind. I like to see it in a greater context. Mindfulness is focusing the attention on whatever is before you. When this is done, the mind is no longer separate from our consciousness. The mind rebels when it is left out of the experience. The solution is non-stop connection to the experiences we have, focusing with aware perception of the present life.Now I am thinking, is it proper to say “more subtle” aspects? Maybe they are different qualitatively and not vibratory?
If you go running with your legs but you do not engage your arms and they flap here and there, it feels silly and highly inefficient. All acts, experiences, awareness, perception, choices, words, or plans must include the full package of what we are. When this is done, all parts that make us what we are belong to the effort of life. Neglect any part, and it becomes a burden.
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kamalamala1
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:46 pm
Re: mind
HI Harijee!
The answers you wrote on this isue is very exiting but some questions arising in this regard also in context of your last lecture about mind.
This your words "The mind rebels when it is left out of the experience."means a lot.
Does mind totally belong to us? Or it is as our body temporary tool given to us by divine.
Why i am writing this since you wrote in your answer to Driptas question that mind can rebel.
Can we say that mind is like a computer with some programs inserted alwready by divine beings or higher self, in it?
The answers you wrote on this isue is very exiting but some questions arising in this regard also in context of your last lecture about mind.
This your words "The mind rebels when it is left out of the experience."means a lot.
Does mind totally belong to us? Or it is as our body temporary tool given to us by divine.
Why i am writing this since you wrote in your answer to Driptas question that mind can rebel.
Can we say that mind is like a computer with some programs inserted alwready by divine beings or higher self, in it?
Re: mind
Our energy belongs to us, obviously, and the mind is a gateway through which our energy flows. The gateway is ours, although the specific characteristics of that gateway such as how clear it is, or how effective it is, depends on our present bodily characteristics. Right now it belongs to us! Rebelling is more a function of the reaction that occurs when we are distracted, not focused, or we allow ourselves to be deviated from our tasks by external forces. When our consciousness is scattered or unclear, we are out of control and the mind reflects that and reverberates with unwanted things.
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kamalamala1
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:46 pm
Re: mind
Harijee !
Can we say that mind rebels when the interests of higher self becomt in conflict with the interests of lower self,?
Can we say that mind rebels when the interests of higher self becomt in conflict with the interests of lower self,?
Re: mind
There is only one self. Whenever we accept something that is not "true" to that self (in-tune with that self) dissonance is created. Mind rebels in an atmosphere of dissonance.
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kamalamala1
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:46 pm
Re: mind
Hi Harijee!
In regards to this isue arising the following question.
I understand that all feeling we get from senses we feel in our mind.
And all this feelings is not different form the feelings in dream when senses is not active at all.
Can we say that the main function of mind is feeling but not just rejecting and accepting?
Rejecting and accepting is secondary function of mind?
At least i feel like that.
In regards to this isue arising the following question.
I understand that all feeling we get from senses we feel in our mind.
And all this feelings is not different form the feelings in dream when senses is not active at all.
Can we say that the main function of mind is feeling but not just rejecting and accepting?
Rejecting and accepting is secondary function of mind?
At least i feel like that.
Re: mind
I do not know why the reply to this question I wrote months ago has disappeared! Something went wrong and my reply was lost. 
I do not believe that the mind feels. Feeling is directly related to consciousness itself as it is the essence of being we all experience as our personal energy, our life, desires, and the main force behind what we do or think. Our minds are affected by what we feel. Naturally there is a two way exchange between what we feel and what we think, but what we feel is far stronger than our thoughts because feeling is the primary energy of consciousness and thinking is subordinate. We see this clearly when we consider that the feelings of love in a loving exchange with God are primary, axiomatic forces and all thoughts are derived from it.
However, if you are referring to "feeling" as the response to a sensual stimulus, such as the feeling of heat when the sun hits our skin, then this is different. I refer to feeling as awareness (the base "sense" of all perception) and the response from us (from the essence, consciousness, spirit we are) arising from that awareness. This is primevil. The other subsequent feelings derived from the interaction of the organs of sense with the world around us are subordinate to this fundamental awareness. These senses are indeed tracked by the mind within the context of the complex bio-chemical framework of cause and effect that is our body-mind-intelligence in this life. This complex is fueled by essence that is often hidden from us.
As far as I know, dreams are a vehicle to facilitate processing the huge amount of data that the senses collect that we did not connect to our feelings or desires directly. Because the data is derived from sensual perception, the mind processes it in a very similar manner as it would when we are awake and presents images and events accordingly. Because this takes place within the subtle realm, the logic of these scenarios reflect the greater freedom within subtle energy.
I suppose one can accept
the concept of accepting and rejecting when one considers the mind within a binary framework (as in 0 and 1 as on/off or yes/no) which evolves into boolean logical sequences which bring in AND. OR, NOT, and a pile of other logical steps built on this. From this point of view, one can indeed call the mind an acceptance/rejection device, but it would be a mistake to define the mind as limited because of this. Perhaps this concept of accept/reject was only meant to define the basic functioning of the mind, although all the other movements within the mind can be understood in more complex ways as the language of the mind is better understood.
I do not believe that the mind feels. Feeling is directly related to consciousness itself as it is the essence of being we all experience as our personal energy, our life, desires, and the main force behind what we do or think. Our minds are affected by what we feel. Naturally there is a two way exchange between what we feel and what we think, but what we feel is far stronger than our thoughts because feeling is the primary energy of consciousness and thinking is subordinate. We see this clearly when we consider that the feelings of love in a loving exchange with God are primary, axiomatic forces and all thoughts are derived from it.
However, if you are referring to "feeling" as the response to a sensual stimulus, such as the feeling of heat when the sun hits our skin, then this is different. I refer to feeling as awareness (the base "sense" of all perception) and the response from us (from the essence, consciousness, spirit we are) arising from that awareness. This is primevil. The other subsequent feelings derived from the interaction of the organs of sense with the world around us are subordinate to this fundamental awareness. These senses are indeed tracked by the mind within the context of the complex bio-chemical framework of cause and effect that is our body-mind-intelligence in this life. This complex is fueled by essence that is often hidden from us.
As far as I know, dreams are a vehicle to facilitate processing the huge amount of data that the senses collect that we did not connect to our feelings or desires directly. Because the data is derived from sensual perception, the mind processes it in a very similar manner as it would when we are awake and presents images and events accordingly. Because this takes place within the subtle realm, the logic of these scenarios reflect the greater freedom within subtle energy.
I suppose one can accept
the concept of accepting and rejecting when one considers the mind within a binary framework (as in 0 and 1 as on/off or yes/no) which evolves into boolean logical sequences which bring in AND. OR, NOT, and a pile of other logical steps built on this. From this point of view, one can indeed call the mind an acceptance/rejection device, but it would be a mistake to define the mind as limited because of this. Perhaps this concept of accept/reject was only meant to define the basic functioning of the mind, although all the other movements within the mind can be understood in more complex ways as the language of the mind is better understood.