Do we need a religion?

[Drpta]

Hi Hari!

I am thinking now, many common people around us are followers of any kind of religion and all of us are victims of traditions. Many of people want to have any place for the sole rest. And they are not very desirous to perform any complex practices to achieve it. So his existing religion and traditions is in much degree respond his desires.

Of course, we can criticize the religions as long as we want, but it looks like we need them? Even you, in spite of your “out of religion” teaching, are saying that you like the eastern tradition. So, what should a man do if from the one hand he likes the religion and tradition he belongs, but from the other hand he wants become more aware than bounds of religion and tradition allow him?

When Buddha starts his teaching, his ideas were very new, pure and attractive but in course of time it appears as Buddism. Do not you afraid that your teaching someday also becomes a religion with Hinduism’s incline?

But I think the religion, if it is not conservative but is ever evolving according of time, needs and degree of awareness of people, might be quite useful and helpful for people. What do you think? If word “religion” is derived from Latin “religare” which means “to reconnect”, so it is very close to word “yoga”.

[Hari]

The most significant problems with religions are their institutionalization. Religion is best tasted near or at the time when their prophets shared their sublime realizations with the people around them. Before distortions appear, before politics, exploitation, or structures appear, religion has the most power. Institutions require money, management, priorities, self-preservation, and many other layers to justify their existence. Before these institutions appear, people are concerned with the ideals and energy of the teachings and are most connected to the goal of the religion.

And yet, without structure religion tends to fade away. For example, I highly doubt that anything I teach will become a religion because I have not created a structure within which a religion can take birth. Since there are very few young people involved in what I do, most likely after I die and the rest of us die, what we are doing will merge into history. For me to "save" what I am doing I have to create temples and proselytize so younger people can join and continue the process. I would require to create structures that are managed and financed. Wherever there is management and finance, all the bad things surrounding religion appear. This is catch 22. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Essence, however, transcends all this. Essence is universal, eternal, and always relevant to all people at all times and places. Ideas tend to last, so if I can present ideas that are good enough to last the ravages of time, I could consider myself a success. But I will not know it because I will be long gone.

I take great risk by avoiding the standard formula of institutionalized theology. I get periodically depressed thinking that few have understood the depths of what I have presented. Despite the universality of what I speak about, its subtle nature and simplicity require an audience free from the complex knots of behavioral modification.

What Buddha, or any other great prophet, said is only as significant as how it was recorded in history and how it was interpreted by his followers. The main problem is faithfully recording the main teachings in their original context and insuring these gifts are preserved by subsequent followers. This is rarely done because institutions tend to be an elephant's foot on the flower of a prophet's inspirational energy.

[Drpta]

See, there is yoga or teaching of connection with Devine and a religion which uses this yoga as a kind of instrument. I think it is quite enough to have the yoga. Until and if this yoga works it will be alive. So the purpose is to make teaching popular by presenting it to people in form they can accept. For this purpose, as I think, we do not need to mold any religion or institution.

You wrote:

I get periodically depressed thinking that few have understood the depths of what I have presented.

Maybe it is a sign that your teaching is too exalted and acceptable for very narrow circle of people who are already trained and ready enough to deal with it? Maybe we need to develop any methods for beginners for prepare and involve them gradually?

For me to "save" what I am doing I have to create temples and proselytize so younger people can join and continue the process. I would require to create structures that are managed and financed.

Temples or places for getting together. For example, if I will build my own private temple with Deities and invite people and make meditations and lectures what you do in Saint-Petersburg temple, in manner how I understand it, do I need to be belonged to or be a part of your religious structure? I am sure that I do not. So, I do not see any problem at all, if people, who understand you, will preach and open private temples out of any structure. The problem is how to urge them to do it.

[Hari]

I can easily develop a method that goes from the start to a very high level, however, I am not the best person to teach a beginning method. Teaching the beginning is something that others can do and must do. I could, hypothetically, teach those who had the capacity to go from the beginning to a high level within a reasonably short period of time. I can also teach those who will teach others. I am fairly good at that!

I am good at teaching teachers. I am also good at developing a curriculum. I have already done this to a large degree, including the discipline required to attain a high level of spiritual awareness. I can advise and design structures and communities. But none of these contributions mean anything unless they are supported by people or groups who find my assets useful. I cannot initiate this but I can participate in an organization created and maintained by committed individuals.

How one defines my contribution depends on many factors. It does not have to be labelled religion or yoga. How it appears depends to a large extent on who will receive what is given and how they share with those who teach. No effort can continue without some form of compensation for efforts. Arrangements need to be made to accommodate reciprocation. Support must come economically, so the structures created can continue, but money is a small part of the equation. Interested, enthusiastic people are worth far more, for where such people congregate, everything else follows.

Religion, per se, is not required. However, a shared, mutually beneficial identity is required for people to assemble in a coherent, sustainable, dynamic group. This includes a teaching, a culture, and a social interaction within an economically sustainable structure.

[Drpta]

I can easily develop a method that goes from the start to a very high level

Certainly, it will be super if you develop such a method with curriculum which people can use to teach others. I think that many people dream about to have such a course even for their own practice and if you compose it then they appreciate it very much. I think that right now we have a good time to prepare to our main future activity!

[Akhila L]

"Religion, per se, is not required. However, a shared, mutually beneficial identity is required for people to assemble in a coherent, sustainable, dynamic group. This includes a teaching, a culture, and a social interaction within an economically sustainable structure."

How relevant in this context is master-student relationship? The word "master" is one of the most favourite words ever used in religion. It makes the student accept the leadership in an almost blind manner. It can be seen in all the great religions, Indian traditions included. I read somewhere that the real "spiritual" masters are more like guardians not authorities or absolute reference point, they do not own their students but rather offer them help and assistance when the student needs it. I guess that the "quality" of the master (or guardian) depends very much on how close to the essence he is himself.

Institutions are good for prestige and practical aspects but usurping the role of absolute source of truth they are at high risk of being hated if they fail to keep the high standard (as the Catholic church, ISKCON, you name it ...). From absolute love to absolute hate there is only a narrow step.

I hope you do not mind these few words of comments. Please, share your thoughts on it.
Best wishes,
A

[Hari]

Hmmm. The word "master" has so many connotations associated with it that discussing this in depth requires far more energy than I can muster right now.

Master-student? Yikes! How about teacher-student? Sounds better, is more realistic, less demanding, and it reflects an open interaction where someone who knows something can share it with someone else without complications.

Maybe a better phrase to represent someone who guides you through your life is a mentor? Mentors are nice people.

Please do not throw religion into this stew as it will ruin its flavor. Sure, we need something to encourage our evolution, but I am not sure what it is we need or why we need it. Spiritual people getting together and sharing their love and devotion for the Supreme is nice. But when one seen as better than the other, or worse, if one is categorized as better when they are actually not so, the association goes sour.

Imagine a spiritual group that does not have a structure that creates better and worse or needs a lot of money? Imagine a group that is not dedicated to its own survival and growth? Just people getting together and doing something spiritual and enjoying the atmosphere! Is it possible?

[Akhila L]

Thank you for this commentary.
I just watched a few Harry Potter's films with my daughter (who loves them) and realised that the school portrayed in the film has "teachers" and "students", although not all the teachers are very nice. Interestingly, the bad guy in the film, Voldemort, calls himself a master. Even more interestingly, in science, when you meet older and more experience peers you used to call them "mentors". At an advanced level in science, there are no masters, not even teachers, people exchange their thoughts and ideas in a more or less free way. I always wonder why we do not have the same situation in the spiritual circles? Maybe we ourselves tend to create this idolatry to feel save?
I do not like institutions, especially the religious ones. I do not feel comfortable with religious ceremonies of any kind. But this is me.
I prefer meeting people who share the same interests in life but they are not so many.

"Imagine a spiritual group that does not have a structure that creates better and worse or needs a lot of money? Imagine a group that is not dedicated to its own survival and growth? Just people getting together and doing something spiritual and enjoying the atmosphere! Is it possible?"

I understand exactly what you mean. Is it possible? You said yourself that we are creators of our lives and the world we live in. Maybe this is what we are doing now? I've noticed (monitoring Facebook activities and other media) that the global consciousness among especially younger people is changing. I am amazed how some of them are determined to change the fate of animals, how they respond to different atrocities that we experience nowadays. Interestingly, the well-established and organised religious organisations are not the ones who care most. Sometimes quite the opposite, actually. They are more interested in promoting their idols and the way of life they think is the only one that counts.
Once again, I strongly sympathise with your words and can only agree.

[kamalamala1]

While I was reading Hari s answer the question arises.
What is real spirituality ,?
But I got in youtube this very detailed lecture about it.
It is so nicely presented this issue in that video that I decided to share it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmvE3eQJORI

[Hari]

Thank you for finding out where I discussed this in a lecture. It saves me a lot of trouble. Most of the time, I have discussed things in lectures. After all, that is why I gave them! I appreciate it when you forum readers find out where and post it. Thanks!