On controlling, recognizing or pacifying the mind

[harsi]

Hari writes to Kamalamala in Discussions with Hari: "Controlling, recognizing or pacifying the mind are all accomplished in the act of meditation."

Its indeed "Where there is a will there is a way" and "God helps those who help themselves" carry life's philosophy! But we please should be clear about one thing. it is not the mind with all its uncontroled or loose thoughts which should have, or gain, the upper hand under all circumstances, it should rather be our determined will to make "us" known through the mind. Than our mind and our thoughts do us, the life essence, a real service, as they are under - our - control.

Hari writes that if we would succeed "to immerse ourselves", or be aware and sense our "essence of being," we would "feel" or would be able to identify our "conscious energy."

The way I understand Hari only when we would be "centered in consciousness," it would be so that everything we would use or have at our disposal would be also "a servant of our energy." And than and only that it would be so that "Nothing is independent. Nothing is material, meaningless, valueless, or a burden." Otherwise it could indeed be as well "independent," or "material" and "meaningless," and "a burden" as well. Or are we all already on that position of being able to express through our - minds, our brains, lifes true essence? What do "you" think?

My sister Trude is suffering since a few years from a physical or mental illness, and I can tell you that her way of expressing her true essence is at times very limited. Without taking regularly certain "material" drugs it would be much worse.

[Drpta]

Surely we are already and always able to express our essence. Our very life is expression of our essence! Every creature able to express the essence and degree of the expression depends from the level of awareness. It is not matter of mind or sanity. It is a matter of our being in whole.

[harsi]

If you consider the people in the east of Ukraine. also able to express their true essence in the way they do, then so be it. I consider their killing each other for a peace of land to be rather an expression of their crazy mind big ego.

[harsi]

But I agree with you that the expression of our true being depends on us being able to be aware of it, of us as a non-physical entity, or us the soul of this animated body and mind. Yes in order to function properly in this world all "parts" of what represents us here have to work and function harmoniously as a whoule.

[Drpta]

OK, place on west Ukraine Kauravas and on east Pandavas with Krishna. What the essence or craziness expressed Krisna on that war on Kurukshetra? War is extreme and discussing extremes is thankless task. But you right with yours first consideration.

Awareness, as I think, is not only how we aware the essence but also is how we aware that we are an extension of the essence. My entire body, my personality with all its aspects (including the mind) is me who am the extension of the essence.

[harsi]

I beeng an extension of the essence. Of whose "essence", of that of my being, or that of someone elses? God, the supremes being maybe? Highly improbably if those killing each other in Ukraine would consider themselves to be that. They consider themselves more to be Russians and Ukranians, in other wirds an ilusory cibcept of themselves created in their mind and ego.

[Drpta]

Essence is spiritual energy and when it manifests as you then this is you. You cannot say “my essence” for you already is the manifestation of the essence. You are essence. This is you in ultimaty. Your manifestation as essence in this world is your body and all that is tied with it. This is how I understand the term “essence” which I use in my considerations. I think it is close to Hari’s one.

[harsi]

I cannot say my essence? Okay I cannot say my soul as I am the soul of this my physical body and this more subtle mind I, the soul, carry with me here in my present existence here on E arth. But I agree with you that I, the nonphysical being, the soul am made of or comprises of thar spiritual substance you denote here as essence. Thus yes I am that essence but that essence is not truely me. I am rather the person behind that spiritual essence or substance which constitudes my existence. God is made of the same substance as me surely, in Indian literatures it is mentioned as brahman.
But the same as me god is not realy just that brahman. That devine being is rather also the person behind that essence, the brahman. He is the parabrahman.

[Drpta]

I am seeing two problems here.
First is that I use a holistic approach and you are using separate approach.

The separate approach is dividing subject into parts and analyzes each part separately. For example the soul, ego, intelligence, mind, physical body and so on. The main problem of this approach is, in the light of our discussion, that you need to control and be aware of all parts you divided the subject into. It is like to control your tang when you are chewing. It is very difficult to not bite your tang. But you must to control! It is very difficult.

Holistic approach is something opposite. You accept subject as it is, in general, with all that constitutes it and without any discrimination. With such approach you do not need to control your tang. It does its job of itself. You do not need to recognize and control your mind. Because if you aware yourself as whole one then your mind working in harmony with other aspects of your being, with the experience you receive. It works naturally. Do not disturb your mind with artificial requests. You just trust to the nature and all things are become working properly as prescribed by God. Unfortunately it is not easy to apply such approach in our real life since the life of modern society mainly based on separate approach.

You may object: what about bad actions? It is your exceptional, personal choice what to do in certain given circumstances. You decide.

Second problem is the meaning of personality. There is a pile of definitions. But in ultimate state the personality or my awareness of that “I am” (someone may call it “ego” or somehow another) is the manifestation of the same spiritual energy or essence. Manifestation means “how it becomes apparent” or in other words this is structured appearance of the essence.

The personality appears only when there is need for communication with other ones. If there is no communication, there is no need the personality. It means, if you cease your desire to communicate or to have relationship with other manifestations of essence, you are dissolving in the Brahman or vanish. In such a way, the manifestation of the spiritual energy, which was you, just disappears and the structured energy dissolves in the homogeneous ocean of spiritual energy.

[harsi]

In my understanding the so caled holistic approach and the divisive one do not truely exclude each other. Why should they? Take anything in this world and divide it in its separate parts is it therefore in any way lesser important than something wcich functiins properly as a whole? Not really. An expert tehnition can put all the separated parts together so that a certain thing can function again. But I agree with you that in order to do that a certain expertise and experience is needed. I dont view the mind or the body as something separate, as something which would function fully indipendent of me, I rather recognize through experience that i and my mind fully depend on each other in order to express that what i want to express thriugh it. It is not the way to exclde each other or exclude something. rather of helping and inspiring each other, all the. seemigly divisive parts to function better and properly with a certain goal in mind.

[harsi]

Regarding personality or to say it in another way, regarding the need to identify oneself as a person with a certain concept or predestined view in mind, I would say it is all a matter of ones personal choice. Even the wish or desire to finish ones involvement in this world or in the afterlife and to simply shine as a star in brahman is a personal choice which just a person can have. Thus whatever you do to avoid being involved as a person with having to be a person and make and personal chiuces is imposible and in fact an ilusion, since you desire an imposible task.
But nevertheless you have the god given freedom to try your best in this direction and come to know and make your own experinces in this regard.

[harsi]

"War is extreme and discussing extremes is a thankless task" writes Drpta, whatever he means by that, which just he can clarify and elaborate more. It seems to me that Drpta wiews a war as a predestined event which is meant to happen in order for the essence to show us something which certain seemingly divisive parts of that essence who consider themselves to be persons, although they would be not realy, would have to learn, in order to give up that mad idea and consider and learn to be aware of themselves again to be in thruth just an energy, a living one of course... Are you kidding me one could tell of course as a response to this my analysis of what Drpta writes above, but let us first wait for his response, maybe it can make some sense to me.

[Drpta]

Drpta wanted to say that when extreme events are discussing the discussion also often shapes an extreme form because definitions which would be given may be quite cynical and out of accepted norms of culture and morality. Therefore he does not like to discuss the subject on this forum. And what you have written above is only your opinion.

[harsi]

Okay, Drpta, now I have understood better what you mean. Thanks for your clarifications. What caused me to respond in allusion to the war in Ukraine is the following: You wrote above that everyone would already express essence, one would in fact always do that. "Surely we are already and always able to express our essence."

You underpin and do visually highlighting your assertion by writing that: "Our very life is (an) expression of our essence!"

Actually every creature would be able to express (that or ones ?!) essence and one would do it according to the level of ones ability to be aware of it. "Every creature (is) able to express the essence and (the) degree of the expression depends from the level of (ones) awareness (of it)."

You write that the expression of essence (ones own or of it ?!) would not even depend on the or ones mind or on sanity and reason. "It is not (a) matter of mind or sanity." It would rather be an act of perceiving a commitment to essence as a whole. " It is a matter of our being in whole."

Okay have I understood you so far corectly, Drpta? Do you mean by "our being in whole" something like feeling ourselves as part of something greater, or of the totality or rather as the Whole, the Totality, or "Essence" as a whole?

And where am I in this your equation? Do I really exist in any way in truth or am I just a temporary appearance of "Essence" as a whole? Where is God as a person in that equation of yours? Is His/Her personality also just a temprary appearance of the Totality, of "Essence" as a whole?

Hari writes to you in his forum "Consciousness is homogenous. Essence is homogenous, as is our energy. Because we are superior to the tools which we use to express life, our conscious essence dominates our field of activity,"

I would fully agree to this. We are here on Harimedia also a "homogenous" group of spiritualy inclined individuals. All the, my own, emphasis is on individuals with a "conscious essence" which "dominates - our - field of activity..."

Hari is very smart, in fact he is the smartest and most inteligent person I have the honour to communicate with, and his conversations always oscillate between the thin line of personalism and impersonalism.

[harsi]

"... if you cease your desire to communicate or to have relationship with other manifestations of essence, you are dissolving in the Brahman or vanish. In such a way, the manifestation of the spiritual energy, which was you, just disappears and the structured energy dissolves in the homogeneous ocean of spiritual energy." - Drpta

Hari fully knows that would he write it the way you did above, it would eventually give rise to a split, a rupture, between the various individuals here on Harimedia. People like me who are convinced persons out of experience would end their further involvement in this forum. Therefore he writes: "our (meaning mine and yours not just the One...) conscious essence dominates our field of activity." And this "our conscious essence" can manifest itself through our freed, our "purified" and unhindered by thoughts, mind, and give rise to and manifest in this world as our "our homogenous energy."