Dear Hari
We know that there are no past and future,and only present exist.
And time is also only present.
But how flow of time can exist being only present,since for the flow its need to be begining( past) and destination (future),?
And wath is flow of time ,?
And also present should be static but life and time is dynamic?
Is time objective or it is totally subjective,?
I myself dont have answers on this and just trying to understand.
time
Re: time
If only present exists, then only existence is present. The word, "time," makes sense in a realm where living beings yearn for a future and remember the past and therefore situate their desires and memories on a time line to organize life better. One who lives in the ever present existence (sat) does not hanker for a future or lament about a past as they are fully absorbed in the present moment. Time as the concept we know it does not exist to them. On cannot even say they live in the moment as there is no concept of moment. They live. That is everything.
Because our past haunts us either positively or negatively and our plan making and preparation for the future is most important, time has great significance in our realm. Due to our lack of focus and not being in contact with the essence we are, our lives exist more in the past and in the future than in the present moment. While acting in the present, we are preoccupied with the future result and absorbed in the acts of the past or some other actions or thoughts related to other places or people. Living totally in the present is a mystic art signifying the greatest achievement for it is the energy of spirit expressing fully without consideration of external, non-existentence.
Time does not flow because it is not an energy. The movement of time is an illusion supported by our measuring devices. Therefore, time is totally subjective. Each of us measure it in our own manner. Our consciousness and how we accept or reject life determines how important actions within the linear measurements of time are. One might say that the universe has its own time independent of us and our paltry considerations, but do planets hanker and lament or care about time? Even if at some point in the future the sun stops shining, does the sun care? Is the sun influenced by that limitation? Or do we worry about it because if it happens when we are alive it will cause our death and we care about death?
Time is important in a realm where the existence of things is limited. If my carrot rots within a week, eating it within that time period is important to me. If I will die within a month, then I feel I have to finish things before then. My limited existence makes time the most important force to reckon with and therefore carefully delineating its passing is of the highest priority. But in a realm where decay is non-existent, time has no power. As being, essence, spirit, consciousness, love, and energy are ever existing, they are not limited and time as we know it has no importance.
I could speak more about the concept of time and flowing, but since time is not an energy it has no flow. We create devices that have a beat that measure off segments that we have labelled as seconds, minutes, years and so on. Time has none of these things, but we find it reassuring to have this facility to measure as it allows us to compartmentalize and organize life into useful sections. Because time has a beat, we are able to make music, and by manipulating that beat by changing the signature, the tempo, or the rhythms, we use time to create mood and enjoyment. Time is a facility needed only in this realm of physicality.
Because our past haunts us either positively or negatively and our plan making and preparation for the future is most important, time has great significance in our realm. Due to our lack of focus and not being in contact with the essence we are, our lives exist more in the past and in the future than in the present moment. While acting in the present, we are preoccupied with the future result and absorbed in the acts of the past or some other actions or thoughts related to other places or people. Living totally in the present is a mystic art signifying the greatest achievement for it is the energy of spirit expressing fully without consideration of external, non-existentence.
Time does not flow because it is not an energy. The movement of time is an illusion supported by our measuring devices. Therefore, time is totally subjective. Each of us measure it in our own manner. Our consciousness and how we accept or reject life determines how important actions within the linear measurements of time are. One might say that the universe has its own time independent of us and our paltry considerations, but do planets hanker and lament or care about time? Even if at some point in the future the sun stops shining, does the sun care? Is the sun influenced by that limitation? Or do we worry about it because if it happens when we are alive it will cause our death and we care about death?
Time is important in a realm where the existence of things is limited. If my carrot rots within a week, eating it within that time period is important to me. If I will die within a month, then I feel I have to finish things before then. My limited existence makes time the most important force to reckon with and therefore carefully delineating its passing is of the highest priority. But in a realm where decay is non-existent, time has no power. As being, essence, spirit, consciousness, love, and energy are ever existing, they are not limited and time as we know it has no importance.
I could speak more about the concept of time and flowing, but since time is not an energy it has no flow. We create devices that have a beat that measure off segments that we have labelled as seconds, minutes, years and so on. Time has none of these things, but we find it reassuring to have this facility to measure as it allows us to compartmentalize and organize life into useful sections. Because time has a beat, we are able to make music, and by manipulating that beat by changing the signature, the tempo, or the rhythms, we use time to create mood and enjoyment. Time is a facility needed only in this realm of physicality.
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kamalamala1
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:46 pm
Re: time
Thank you very much for very interesting answer.
I need some time to dijest and understand the isue.
As i understand time is concoted by people category
in reality it doesnt exist
I need some time to dijest and understand the isue.
As i understand time is concoted by people category
in reality it doesnt exist
Re: time
.
,(Full Image)
“I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, under whose control even the sun, which is considered to be the eye of the Lord, rotates within the fixed orbit of eternal time.
The sun is the king of all planetary systems and has unlimited potency in heat and light.”
How it seems, Kamalamala, at least the author of this famous verses seems to indicate that, time does exist nevertheless, and that eternally, the way we do exist also on the ´spiritual´ level. It´s just that in this realm we are at present it seems to have also a deteriorating effect while in another dimension which is, or may be, right now beyond our reach, it just is and exists without this seemingly negative effects. "Time I am, the destroyer of the worlds, who has come to annihilate everyone. Even without your taking part all those arrayed in the [two] opposing ranks will be slain!" ~ Krishna to Arjuna on the battlefield of Kurukshetra
In other words the Supreme, in the form of Sri Krishna, suggests to Arjuna: I am all-destroying time and at present I have accepted this gigantic form. I am present here to annihiliate Duryodhana and others. The result of my mission will be that, except for you the five Pandavas, no one on this battlefield will remain alive. Even without your endeavour of the efforts of other warriors like you, all will be devoured within the jaws of terrible time, because in my form - as time - I have already taken their lives. Those heroes who are present on both sides will definitely enter the mouth of death, even without doing battle. Therefore, O Arjuna, if you remain aloof from the battle, you will loose in the eyes of the world your status, your good reputation as a ksatriya warrior, because you have neglected your responsibility in this respect, (sva-dharma in Sanskrit) and still they will not be saved.
,(Full Image)
“I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, under whose control even the sun, which is considered to be the eye of the Lord, rotates within the fixed orbit of eternal time.
The sun is the king of all planetary systems and has unlimited potency in heat and light.”
How it seems, Kamalamala, at least the author of this famous verses seems to indicate that, time does exist nevertheless, and that eternally, the way we do exist also on the ´spiritual´ level. It´s just that in this realm we are at present it seems to have also a deteriorating effect while in another dimension which is, or may be, right now beyond our reach, it just is and exists without this seemingly negative effects. "Time I am, the destroyer of the worlds, who has come to annihilate everyone. Even without your taking part all those arrayed in the [two] opposing ranks will be slain!" ~ Krishna to Arjuna on the battlefield of Kurukshetra
In other words the Supreme, in the form of Sri Krishna, suggests to Arjuna: I am all-destroying time and at present I have accepted this gigantic form. I am present here to annihiliate Duryodhana and others. The result of my mission will be that, except for you the five Pandavas, no one on this battlefield will remain alive. Even without your endeavour of the efforts of other warriors like you, all will be devoured within the jaws of terrible time, because in my form - as time - I have already taken their lives. Those heroes who are present on both sides will definitely enter the mouth of death, even without doing battle. Therefore, O Arjuna, if you remain aloof from the battle, you will loose in the eyes of the world your status, your good reputation as a ksatriya warrior, because you have neglected your responsibility in this respect, (sva-dharma in Sanskrit) and still they will not be saved.
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kamalamala1
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:46 pm
Re: time
This a place where we want to discuss isues with Hari.
So please when you want to discuss some isues with me write in Good old dayes
I know the verses you wrote but just citing the wellknown verses doesnt mean anything for me.
Do you know how time is called in sanskrit it can have many different meanings .Kala is not nessesary time.
And more then that some verses you citing is not corectly translated from sanskrit.
If we become free and really loose our Fear then time will desapear.
because we are limited here so we have great Fears for very many things and on this fear is based most of our activites that is why we feel the time.
Actually most the time we fear for somthing.
Less we fear less feel time.
In Spirtual warld there are no fear
IN deep maditation time doesnt have any value.
Wath Hari said is very interesting and very deep i am just trying to understand it .
So please when you want to discuss some isues with me write in Good old dayes
I know the verses you wrote but just citing the wellknown verses doesnt mean anything for me.
Do you know how time is called in sanskrit it can have many different meanings .Kala is not nessesary time.
And more then that some verses you citing is not corectly translated from sanskrit.
If we become free and really loose our Fear then time will desapear.
because we are limited here so we have great Fears for very many things and on this fear is based most of our activites that is why we feel the time.
Actually most the time we fear for somthing.
Less we fear less feel time.
In Spirtual warld there are no fear
IN deep maditation time doesnt have any value.
Wath Hari said is very interesting and very deep i am just trying to understand it .
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kamalamala1
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:46 pm
Re: time
And not only fear but expectations also
Re: time
As far as I remember Hari wrote ones in this Forum that after he answered a particular question one of theople here on Harimedia everyone can share in the particular thread also his or view on the particular issue under discussion. in thisway i gave you my view on the issue of time which makes sense to me.
Re: time
I am back to Germany after a stay of a few days in my second home in Iasi, Romania, and I have noted, Kamalamala, that my memory did not served me well in this regard. I had in mind a conversation from 2005 I found today in this forum, where Hari made ones a brief remark to someone: "To be honest, it discourages me to reply when you answer before me. Actually, I would appreciate it if you could create longer discussions in the other forums." See: http://www.harimedia.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32
Thus it was a failure of my memory. You may know the earnest phrases "To err is human, but to persist in error is another matter" and "don't be over-confident about what you are doing - or writing... Check your appraisal one time too much than too little." I did this now, albeit a little late.
Here are few infos from history, which I find quite interesting, on this issue of time from a German website:
"(bing translation from German) "The clock began as a crude, unreliable and imprecise instrument in medieval monasteries and was initially nothing more than a device to ensure compliance and the participation to the Church rules on the observance of prayer with the help of bell signals. The genius of this invention of an unknown monk at the end of the 13th century, was to take advantage of an oscillating motion to divide time into countable blows of a bell. When the steady ticking of a clock was heard for the first time, this marked the start of the transformation of individual or objective time into subjective time, the change from quality to quantity.
The mechanical watch is one of the key inventions of the Western world, whose influence on society and on technological developments was of paramount importance and marked and characterised Europe's road to political hegemony. The watchmaker's art was the craft of the technical skills and production techniques were derived for the complicated machinery of the industrial revolution. The clock prepared the people to function in a highly rationalised daily work and everyday life. Thus it became also the paradigmatic metaphor in the early years of industrialisation: an emblem of accuracy and precision, which made time available for the first time as a tangible product which was able to be transformed into money.
"Time is money" has become the motto of the new capitalists, who were in the possession of the precious timekeepers and who stole the workers in the factories through manipulated watches precious minutes. Also in the transportation and warfare the possession of accurate chronometers was a great advantage and was a means of exercising power. Only with the rise of cheap pocket watches from mass market production the hegemony of time by the owning class was broken."
Thus it was a failure of my memory. You may know the earnest phrases "To err is human, but to persist in error is another matter" and "don't be over-confident about what you are doing - or writing... Check your appraisal one time too much than too little." I did this now, albeit a little late.
Here are few infos from history, which I find quite interesting, on this issue of time from a German website:
"(bing translation from German) "The clock began as a crude, unreliable and imprecise instrument in medieval monasteries and was initially nothing more than a device to ensure compliance and the participation to the Church rules on the observance of prayer with the help of bell signals. The genius of this invention of an unknown monk at the end of the 13th century, was to take advantage of an oscillating motion to divide time into countable blows of a bell. When the steady ticking of a clock was heard for the first time, this marked the start of the transformation of individual or objective time into subjective time, the change from quality to quantity.
The mechanical watch is one of the key inventions of the Western world, whose influence on society and on technological developments was of paramount importance and marked and characterised Europe's road to political hegemony. The watchmaker's art was the craft of the technical skills and production techniques were derived for the complicated machinery of the industrial revolution. The clock prepared the people to function in a highly rationalised daily work and everyday life. Thus it became also the paradigmatic metaphor in the early years of industrialisation: an emblem of accuracy and precision, which made time available for the first time as a tangible product which was able to be transformed into money.
"Time is money" has become the motto of the new capitalists, who were in the possession of the precious timekeepers and who stole the workers in the factories through manipulated watches precious minutes. Also in the transportation and warfare the possession of accurate chronometers was a great advantage and was a means of exercising power. Only with the rise of cheap pocket watches from mass market production the hegemony of time by the owning class was broken."
Re: time
Dear Hari, to be absorbed in present experiance it seems we may have only one experiance at a time (if that 's not truth, please correct me), so there 's opinion that if one could be fully (forever) satisfied with some experiance (for instance, within some pastime of one 's own relationship with Krishna), then one wouldn 't experiance any changing of time (as a means for changing of one 's experiance) anymore. But from the Goethe 's point of view this concept might seem demoniac: Faust couldn 't ,,lost his soul,, (Mefisto coudn 't take him) until he finaly (after many dissatisfying experiances) exclamed: ,,Oh Time, stop now, now you are too beautiful!,, (Listening to your composition "Knock About Time" provokes that kind of experiance, I must confess!). So, my question is: both of these concepts might make sence: the seeminly static one (that 's shared amongst the devotees), and the kind of evolutionary one (that we mustn 't stick to any particular preference, otherwise we prevent Time from doing It 's evolutionary work on us), so which one of them you prefer (recomend) and why? Thankfuly yours, A.d.
Re: time
Being fully absorbed in the present means that we are fully aware of our experience each moment. It does not mean that one experiences only one thing. One can experience multiple things at the same time in each moment, and when one catches the import of awareness of the present, one learns that one's senses can work together at the same time to enrich our experiences. As our awareness expands, our experience expands accordingly.
Life within ever presence is not static and stuck in one moment. When we speak of time, we generally refer to some clock or calendar, or our feeling about how long something takes. For example, when we watch a pot of water coming to boil. As they say, a watched pot never boils. What they mean is that the pot boils just as fast whether we watch it or not, but when we watch it expecting it to boil, our consciousness becomes dominated by that expectation and we are absorbed in the act of waiting for a result. Thus our pain of waiting and our subsequent frustration create a time period of suffering that connects us to time. If one was not bound to the result, one would have a different experience.
Our evolution is not a product of time, but it happens step by step. Each moment we live is as valuable as any other moment, and the journey of life is as important than the moment the goal is reached. If all we care about is the goal, then time can be a challenge. If we care about the moment, time ceases to be a challenge.
Life within ever presence is not static and stuck in one moment. When we speak of time, we generally refer to some clock or calendar, or our feeling about how long something takes. For example, when we watch a pot of water coming to boil. As they say, a watched pot never boils. What they mean is that the pot boils just as fast whether we watch it or not, but when we watch it expecting it to boil, our consciousness becomes dominated by that expectation and we are absorbed in the act of waiting for a result. Thus our pain of waiting and our subsequent frustration create a time period of suffering that connects us to time. If one was not bound to the result, one would have a different experience.
Our evolution is not a product of time, but it happens step by step. Each moment we live is as valuable as any other moment, and the journey of life is as important than the moment the goal is reached. If all we care about is the goal, then time can be a challenge. If we care about the moment, time ceases to be a challenge.
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kamalamala1
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:46 pm
Re: time
Harijee
Arising the other question in regard of time isue.
We see that in warld evrything each moment is changing (nothing stayes static),wath is the sourse of this prosses?
in sanskrit if i am not wrong it called Kala, have this force anything with the idea of time,?
Arising the other question in regard of time isue.
We see that in warld evrything each moment is changing (nothing stayes static),wath is the sourse of this prosses?
in sanskrit if i am not wrong it called Kala, have this force anything with the idea of time,?
Re: time
Time is a unit of measurement similar to other quantifiers such as weight, height, and so on. All things change in this world and so their quantifiers change as well. Our description of things changes as the things themselves decay, or grow, or modify. If it takes 5 years for something to grow, we describe its transformation as having taken so many units of our clock measurements. That our clock is a relative thing is obvious, for it is based on a convenient division of our year and day, all related to the movement of the sun and earth. Clocks on other planets or solar systems will look and act differently, although the process of measurement is basically the same.
Kala, as the force of time spoken of in the Gita, is a great destroyer because all things material decay. Things change by the design of the creator. This world was designed to be filled with things that are created or take birth, that grow or evolve, that last for some time, and then eventually decay. Time is used to describe that process. When you see the world as a product of matter, then this process from creation to destruction is of paramount importance as it describes all things and time becomes the great destroyer as all things eventually get destroyed.
If you see existence as life itself, filled with living energy and consciousness, you have a better chance to understand the ever present existence beyond time, beyond space, and beyond the process of creation and destruction. Since time is known by this process, it does not exist in ever present essence.
Kala, as the force of time spoken of in the Gita, is a great destroyer because all things material decay. Things change by the design of the creator. This world was designed to be filled with things that are created or take birth, that grow or evolve, that last for some time, and then eventually decay. Time is used to describe that process. When you see the world as a product of matter, then this process from creation to destruction is of paramount importance as it describes all things and time becomes the great destroyer as all things eventually get destroyed.
If you see existence as life itself, filled with living energy and consciousness, you have a better chance to understand the ever present existence beyond time, beyond space, and beyond the process of creation and destruction. Since time is known by this process, it does not exist in ever present essence.