Unity between male and female energies - divine in nature?

[harsi]

Dear Hari, by viewing the images of the Radha Krishna Deities you instaled in the temple in Saint Petersburg who are looking so gorgeous and happy one question came into my mind I would like to ask you. You may also know the understanding someone like me raised up in regard to this, although I always remaind open and still am to any suplementary understanding. What is in our opinion the deeper meaning of worshiping Radha Krishna as the Supreme? For a Vaishnava and someone who is used to view and worship Radha Krishna in the traditional way and understanding described in the revealed scriptures, or for someone who may come from another spiritual or religious background this questions may well search for a satisfactory answer and in your weekly lectures you are speaking very little about.

[Hari]

Perhaps if I put my understanding in orthodox terms it will be clearer. Sometimes people have a hard time understanding unfamiliar subjects due to being unable to process the conceptual elements integrated within the overall context. When the scenario is labeled in a familiar manner they suddenly develop clarity.

This infers, of course, that they do not really understand the situation; rather, they merely understand the term used as a label. The label may have little relevance to the situation it attempts to clarify, but often this does not matter to those who are comfortable with finding meaning in this way.

For the sake of those who thirst for labels, I suggest the following understanding.

In the raga form of worship of the Deity, the Deity is seen as a living personality related to in a flowing and loving manner rather than an arca-vigraha regularly worshiped in a formal context. Such personal loving relationships are based on feelings and the actions manifesting from these feeling display love in all its intensity and variety and are not concerned with regulatory considerations.

Now those who are into labels will undoubtedly submit the standard and expected objection and reject this explanation as relevant to our Deities. In their minds, it is not possible to be on that platform unless you are near to being, or are, a "liberated soul" who is _______ [fill in the blanks with your favorite requirements for being liberated.] I have nothing to say to such persons as I do not see any need to reply to this. This is their idea borne of their education and they will not change. This is fine.

I do not see it the same way they see it. I do not see love as unattainable for all but the most rare and fortunate souls. And I do not see developing a personal, loving, feeling communication with the Deities as a complex development after many lifetimes of penance, austerity, and the attainment of mercy. I see it as a conscious choice made by one who is aware of their personal energy, and the qualitative context which their personal energy interacts within existence. This has been the subject of many discussions and texts recorded on this site.

I do not think my feeling or manner of relating to the Deity is contrary to the principles of the sastra. I think it is the essence.

Does this assist you in understanding my point of view?

[harsi]

I have to admit that I read many times your answer to my question, in order to understand it completelly. I guess it has also something to do with my limited understanding of the English language. Your answer reminded me of the discussions that I had sometimes with my wife, a few years ago. She was a teacher in Romania by that time and she expressed to me her wonder about why I and others were always speaking in this preconceived stereotyped notions while speaking about spiritual themes and why we didn't use more our own words and understanding.

To your feeling and manner of relating to the Deities with love and devotion I agree, it sounds reasonable to me. In order to develop the loving relationship with the Deities, one may want to know also more about the divine personalities one is worshiping in this manner and with this understanding, his or her pastimes or lilas, qualities etc. That may lead one to the next question: where to find or get that knowledge if not in the already known sources?

[Hari]

I replied to your question in my lecture on Saturday December 2, 2006, entitled "Knowing Someone."

[harsi]

It was a great pleasure for me to listen to your lecture explaining how one can relate to the Supreme and view spirituality in a way one was not used to think before. It opend up a whole new way to look at this issue and ones own responsabilities and posibilities one has. Indeed very interesting and rewarding to take into consideration in life.

[papula]

Sorry to hijack this thread,
but I didn't want to start a new one as my questions are related to the OT.

I've been studying quite a bit Tibetan Buddhism (among other things) in recent years and I've come to conlcusion that male and female in their iconography and meditative practises are symbolical representations of some universal underlying principle. Usually paired as Wisdom-Method, Emptiness-Form, Male-Female. And they are non-separate and non-dual in essence. (Little bit like achintya-abheda-bheda philosophy, but with a twist.) Example, they reject the four philosophical extremes ie. monism, dualism, nihilism and eternalism and "Tetralemma".

-eternalism, which maintains that all circumstance unfolds according to an unchangeable plan or design. Eternalism is thus a distorted view in which form reigns supreme, denying the emptiness of the possibility of change or chance.

-nihilism, which distorts non-dual reality by maintaining that all actions are empty of meaningful value.

-monism, which distorts non-duality by asserting that "everything is one" in denial of apparent distinctions and compassionate connections.

-dualism, which denies non-duality by declaring that emptiness and form are divided.

"Tetralemma" or catuskoti is generally understood to be a POV where two logical statements have four possible "dimensions".

So my question is basically this: (to Hari)

Has there been any equivalent to TB idea of this non-dual "union" of emptiness and form (as a meditation or visualisation practice especially) in connection with deities or Radha-Krishna pair?

Has there been a practice where R-K pair (or similar male-female pair) have been visualisation methods of realization the ultimate, outside the theistic idea of God? (Especially in Vaishnavism?) In other words, has there been at any time a tradition that "used" R-K pair as inner tool for unlocking the inherent potential for greater awareness of things as they are, without considering them to be really existing, separate God-entities in some "spiritual dimension"

Or is this anything you like to discuss at all?

Thanks for your time,
Sebastian

[Hari]

You did not hijack the thread so all is well in forum-land.

But you asked me a whopper of a question. It is a great point to discuss but I do not feel qualified to give an authoritative answer. I do not know all the religious traditions that have ever existed. Naturally, all of us are more or less familiar with the common world religions and some eastern esoteria, but there are many spiritual practices or thoughts which have not been documented. Within these undocumented spiritual forms one may find an awareness and recognition of the holistic view of existence to which you refer.

The yin-yang symbol is a very universal indication of the natural balance within existence. Before this symbol was created, there were tribal people who created forms of spirituality which are today called pagan. I am fairly sure that India prior to the 'vedic' era (the time of the prominence of the four vedas) was a place where the tribal people were in tune with the goddess potency. Anyone who lives in connection with nature and who is not overwhelmed by the self-interested or motivated manner in which a 'sophisticated' society pushes its members to act for survival, can see the symbiotic relationship between male and female in all things. The propagation of all species, the manner in which nature moves in cycles and fertilizes the earth along with the day to day experiences of humans, points towards an interdependent existence that rests upon the interaction between male and female. Perhaps one might not specify these forces as belonging to a gender, but one certainly perceives the push and pull of the natural polarities.

The act of balancing the archetypical male and female energies is different from adjusting life as a response to the forces of polarity. Restoring the primordial balance between feminine and masculine becomes a spiritual quest for the original state of perfect divine harmony. Well before one is ready to tackle this effort, one is forced by nature to deal with the very real and pressing demands of a world in flux and respond in a manner which insures survival and comfort. In such a struggle, there are opposites, or things which seem to be quite different in their nature like good and bad and so on, but there are also forces which work together to paint the complex picture of our earthly ambience. It is hard to place good and bad within the categories of male and female. However, we can see how the interaction of the male and female create situations within which people will see things as good or bad and possibly create conflicts accordingly. Thus defining the elements of nature in the context of balancing nature's powerful forces and urges, became the primary concern for all tribal peoples.

In their endeavor to maintain and grow, they dealt with nature closely and adapted to nature's changes. This sensitivity to their environment allowed them an intimate view of the inner workings of life. They could speak about it in symbols, words or forms, which represented their feelings and indicate the latest directions to their children how to best evolve.

The earliest people could see how their day to day lives depended on their parents when they were young or how their children similarly depended on them. They could see the cycles of birth to death and the growing seasons as indicators of powerful forces beyond their control. They saw the male qualities of logic, reason, power, defense, hunting, order and organization and so on as the partner to the female qualities of nurturing, nourishing, cultivating, gathering, the creation of compatible spaces and ambience and so on. They saw that all endeavors to deal with those forces that are beyond their control requires this male-female partnership. When in tune with these energies, they may have seen the earth as female due to its motherly character, and all that above the earth as male. As they categorized things according to the way they felt they represented the male or female quality, perhaps even with emphasis on these qualities as representing the father or mother, they might create deities accordingly. Their language might also start to place gender on words according to how they feel about the words.

Systematically recognizing these qualities and learning to work within them is a research process whereas balancing them to create a better existence is an act of discipline. In this way they are different. The more advanced might come to see the balance within these two archetypical energies as the essence of life. They might conclude that in the sublime state of balance they are equally joined in a perfect reciprocity. Anyone who concludes so will automatically assume that the divine state includes this balance. If one wishes to have deity, one would naturally presume the deity is the personification of this balance or, if it is a minor deity, works perfectly within the balance or is integral to the maintenance of the balance within the universe.

One could speak about the need of deity philosophically. One could ask, "Is the creation of an eternally existing perfect divine being an integral and essential part of divine balance or could such balance exist independent of a deity as a naturally existing state that appears when all disturbing elements are removed?" How would the ancient tribal handle this question? It is likely each tribe would address the issue differently according to their bio-physical natures and their existing cultures.

All the pairs of dual concepts which join into a sublime union of awareness (such as those you stated at the start of your comment) are certainly the essence of the philosophical effort to regain and retain the natural balance of being. What I find interesting is although they are a type of duality, their union brings balance. Duality in union is balance. Balance is the state of oneness where one does not consider the duality but lives in the state of divine harmony.

One can therefore say that the state of perfection is divine harmony where all dualities of existence find their balance within the being of a person who does not waver in the unsteady winds of desire. Stated in this manner, we sound very Tibetan, but word it slightly differently and throw in the deity as the personification of that divine balance and you have theism and God. Once one is in balance, it matters little to that person if the balance is within them alone, or they are merged within the totality of balance, or that the balance depends on and is within the deity for they are experiencing the state as oneness with existence and they are happy with it.

I find it interesting that in many stories about Radha and Krsna the balance is always being thrown off by pranks or games in which anger is aroused or conflict must be overcome. In this ideal, balance is the foundation upon which the individuals play but periodic disturbance of this balance and the consequent struggle to restore it creates spice in life.

Some look at that and wonder. Some look at the pain gopis go through or Radha must suffer and think this is very human and not characteristic of deity. Some wish to remain in balance and see no need to ruin what they took so long to attain. Again, it depends on who you are and how you wish to interact. I see this conflict between the divine couple as very characteristic of the interplay of the female and male energies. It seems to me that some form of tension, real or created, is essential for life to exist. I think it is here that Vaishnavism and other traditions part ways.

That certain practices require the visualization of personality as a tool to attaining balance proves in the minds of the theists that God is required even for Buddhists. Yet Buddhists might not care about this as they have reached their being and are one with their essence. As all desire and need connected with the illusory forms of life are dissolved, they feel fine as they are and see no need to manipulate this state further.

I do not worry about this personally as I respect their attainments and their state of being. Although I also occasionally immerse myself in these illuminating states, I confess to an inclination to interaction with Radha and Krsna.

How one sees deity depends on how one is inclined and educated. It also depends on what one is. Some personalities are inclined towards a more solitary life whereas others are more social. These inclinations can be borne of present or past life trauma, or they can be a manifestation of their essence.

Getting back to your question, it does not seem to make much difference whether or not one includes deity in one's meditation on the male-female nature within all things, as the attempt to balance the feminine and masculine is the discipline which brings one to essence. When one is there, one responds within this state according to what one is.

I would suppose that tribals all over the world in pre-history times (I avoid prehistoric as it sounds like dinosaurs, cavemen and so on) were in tune with nature and the energy of life. This led them to naturally want to create balance. The more spiritual amongst them categorized this by creating meditations, hymns, music that moved the heart or soul, and active practices of worship, with or without iconography or forms, to point towards the energetically perceived deities. These rites included male forms and female forms, but also combined or hermaphroditic forms to represent the state of balance naturally ascribed to those within the higher realms.

One could look within the Cabbala and other hidden or mystical practices tangentially related to main-stream religion for indications of a structured attempt to find cosmic balance. It exists in tantra, but it is sometimes twisted to create opportunities for unnatural powers. Do not forget, the mystical traditions which are in the category of 'secret societies' insured their survival by not documenting what they did and by demanding difficult tests of membership along with severe punishments for betrayal of trust. These traditions were not handed down unless secrecy was guaranteed and therefore we neither know about them nor have access to them today. Look at how women were burned in the middle ages simply because they worked with nature to balance the forces which shape the world? Due to the dominance of hierarchic conceptions of God and the world, anyone who they thought challenged their power by attempting to bring the goddess back into prominence, or worse, to make her existence a necessary partner in the balance of all things, was a heretic and a danger to be burned.

I realize my answer was not exactly what you asked for, but perhaps there are more scholarly members of the forum who might want to share with us a documented practice that directly invoked balancing male-female deities?

[papula]

You did not hijack the thread so all is well in forum-land.

I'm quite satisfied with your answers so far, and feel no further elaboration on the subject. (It was nice to make a contact with you this way. Thanks for it.)

I realize my answer was not exactly what you asked for, but perhaps there are more scholarly members of the forum who might want to share with us a documented practice that directly invoked balancing male-female deities?

Well understood. Thnx.