As I stated in my reply, I did not try to answer definitively. I did not try because I cannot answer with conviction as I do not have the personal experience within my conscious mind of how the consciousness within the womb manifests. I have seen children in the womb respond to light, but on what level this response takes place is hard to determine. Considering my lack of expertise, I do not feel it wrong to speak about what others say or feel about this issue. Your response represents the point of view of those who feel strongly about the need to protect unborn children. Although I would certainly agree with the nobility of such a value, I would not have expressed myself as you have. If my lack of conviction qualifies my answer as wishy washy, then so be it. As I have said many times, my replies will be based on my experience, and if they cannot be, I will say so.
I did not say the soul "cannot be unconscious" during the long time in the womb -- I said this was a simplistic idea that did not resonate well with me. Your objection also does not resonate with me. "Why can't it?" is not an argument I would wish to reply to, for anything is possible in the realm of the unknown. Your comparison between an embryo and a sleeping person is also not illuminating and I doubt that the books you critically mention have discussed this issue with the idea to justify violence. They seem to be suggesting that we have understood pregnancy and the consciousness of the embryo incompletely. Logically this implies people have defined abortion improperly.
Abortion can be defined as violent when one considers it the murder of a living soul within a body. But some do not define the life within the body that way and how one feels about abortion depends on how the embryo is defined. One may believe religious literature or one may consider modern spiritual literature, or one may make the decision based on what is best for oneself. Some religionists say it is self-evident that it is violent murder while others say this idea is primitive. I think discussing it is good and therefore I took the trouble to answer the question in the first place and am now taking the time to reply to you. I feel open discussion is a means to assist those who have to make such weighty decisions to make them with greater awareness. I do not like to partake in mandating what is right or wrong for everyone does what they think is right at the time they do it. Giving one all the options available and explaining each is valuable. There are professional counselors, loving relatives (who often never hear about the pregnancy), friends, or literature available to enable the seeker of help to find it. I tried to assist in one small and rather insignificant way to expand slightly the spiritualist point of view by quoting some of the available ideas.
To state that abortion is fear based does not negate the requirement of some to accept it. Do you mean to say that anything done out of fear should be rejected? This means one should only act out of love. This sounds like
Conversations with God to me. Yet some women or young girls feel this fear so strongly they consider abortion their only option.
If you were to act out of love and work in a clinic or a center to assist those thinking of abortion to overcome their fear and make the right choice out of love, you might find it quite rewarding. There are also some who work in centers to help those who wish to abort to accept their situations better. After all, many girls who have had abortions regret it and carry this pain with them their whole lives. Others are convinced it was the right choice for them.
You say some of the research done by Newton was valid. This means you invalidate the rest. On what grounds do you invalidate his research? Were some aspects of the research improperly conducted? Were the results tainted? Or was it that you disagree with it? Perhaps you chose your words improperly to express your ideas?
Does this mean that if we destroy the body of someone who is sleeping or in a coma due to an accident that it is ok? If I astrally travel while I am asleep does this mean that you can smash my head? The soul does not die but does this justify destroying my body?
Your state the soul is sleeping in the womb. If you remember, I did not like this idea very much. If what certain persons say about the "soul" bonding to a personality later on within the womb is true, then the "someone" you speak about is not sleeping; rather, it is the body that is sleeping and the "someone" has not yet appeared. This is quite a different situation than when a living active soul goes to sleep and is murdered.
I am personally against causing animals harm. I am also against causing people harm, but sometimes harming one person to protect another is required.
What if a young girl is violently raped against her will in a manner that scars her for life and which fills her with hatred towards the rapist and the world? This unwanted baby who was violently thrust into her womb against her will represents to her the horror. Is allowing her to end her pregnancy not "harmonious with the laws of the divine mother?" I do not know. Do you? You may be convinced you do know and I have nothing to say to that. I am convinced I do not know, yet I would feel comfortable with assisting that young girl and supporting her choice, whatever it is. I know I cannot really answer your challenge as I am a wishy wash, but I do think there is much more to consider, especially if you are the potential mother and your life threatens to be torn apart by something beyond your control. I have only mentioned one hypothetical situation and my not mentioning others does not negate the possibility that other situations might be equally valid to pregnant women.
The point of my original text was not to definitively address the issue of whether abortion is right or wrong. I was trying to offer some balanced insight into the complexities of this difficult subject as there are people I know who have struggled enormously with their past actions. I do not like to condemn such persons.
It would be very hard for me handle having to personally make such a decision, and I pray I never have to, but I would avoid trying to dictate to others how they must decide as I would want to give a broader picture and multiple options as an assistance to women in stress. But then again, this is just me. I can conceive of how forcing a woman to not abort could later turn out to be disastrous both for her and the child and create consequences as entangling as one might believe the abortion to be. Contrarily, I can also conceive of a happy future. You might feel strongly and demand women to have their children regardless of the cost based on what you believe to be philosophically correct. I will not argue against your belief. I have tried to clarify somewhat the issue in the light of your strong expression of it.
