Dear Hari,
question from russian forum. Author - Dhana.
Earlier we have thought about ourselves like disciples of some Guru, and we were proud of it. We have related ourselves to certain society and line of teachers, to certain school. Can we think about ourselves as man of the world of free soul? When the old paradigm breaks down one wish to get rid of past common existence with somebody or something quasi one wish to wash away something sticky that embrace him for a long period of time. In time such a rejection accept healthy forms based on real realization and understanding oneself. You have said You are not Guru, but helping people is Your vocation. For me the man who helps me is a teacher. Is it correct to say to myself: if You are a teacher, then I am Your disciple? It happens that somebody through the books or practice helps me, I also could call him a teacher. But the question is: Do I need some new label, new name? Does the attitude of the Universe and angels towards me depend on my opinion about myself? On whose follower I am. Or I can to confess to myself that I just go and use everything that helps me to grow and thanks to all? Maybe on the level of full self-realization there is no need to be privy to some group or a person? Some persons and groups resonate with me, and I can use their experience and practice. How much is it important to devote oneself to some school? Earlier the hearing or impersonals was considered as a great offence and the beginning of a falling. But I can read that kind of book and find there something useful.
What will the Higher authority say about my "deviations"? Do the elevated souls see us like the disciple of disciple, the servant or the servant or grand and powerful essences, co-creator with God?
How to think about ourselves?
When your teachers in school taught you your ABC's, were you their disciple? Learning from someone does not make one a disciple. Considering this, you choose to be a disciple when it makes sense for you to think of yourself in that manner. Part of the making sense is having the appropriate forum to express your discipleship. This usually requires the presence of a person who acts as your teacher/authority.
One does not have to define oneself as a disciple. There are other healthy, natural and rewarding relationships with teachers which can be beneficial and require no 'contracts' or formality. When we accept a teacher (or teaching ) to assist us, we are seeking to evolve through spiritual experiences and we are expected to take what we can and develop. We do not need to re-define ourselves according to the demands of a culture of guru-disciple or master-apprentice for we can feel quite comfortable with being seekers of the truth. Angels, demigods, sages, saintly persons, or other seekers of the truth accept us as their compatriot and assist us on occasion. This philosophical definition of what we are as a seeker is not only sufficient, it frees us from needless burdens when you do not wish to have them, allows us to always seek truth and not simply accept it even when our experience contradicts what we are told, and empowers our progress under any and all circumstances.
If someone demands you become their disciple before they will share with you their knowledge or experience, you can examine whether this is something you want to do or not. You might find this demand stifling, archaic, or bordering on potential exploitation, or you might find it comforting to have finally found shelter on a clearly defined island in a sea of uncertainty. Your decision depends on how you feel at the time. I do not see any absolute requirement either way; sometimes one way works better than the other, for our evolutionary needs lead us to what we must experience.
If I find something that resonates well with me, I accept it. If I find something that does not resonate well with me I try to understand it better. If I need to change and I see it is right to do so, I will consider it, but when I see no reason to integrate this understanding into my life I will not do so. I maintain my freedom to seek out the truth by doing what I feel is best for me at all times. This does not mean that I always do the 'best' or 'right' thing for there are often circumstances which force me to accept associations, actions, or even partnerships I might not wish to accept were I independent of all needs. As we are social beings with internal needs that must be addressed within an external environment, how we deal with the world around us has to accommodate the reality of our world.
Are you asking me to set up some rule or guideline for you? I don't wish to fulfill this request. I do not think there is an absolute or 'higher' requirement that a master-apprentice relationship is the sole or optimal means to attain realization, yet I have also stated that sometimes a person needs to be in such an environment for a variety of reasons of which we may or may not be aware. I was also in such an environment and evolved within it despite its limitations.
If someone were to judge your 'deviations' there would have to exist a standard that all must follow. If you believe that, then you naturally would want to follow that standard and not deviate and therefore there is no need to ask the questions you are asking. If you do not believe this idea then there is also no need to ask the question since the divine would not label your attempts to develop as deviations when there is no such standard. However, do not forget we have our own standards that we apply in our lives and often we do not tolerate our own deviations from them.
I will avoid dealing with your last sentence as it is filled with tar. There can be nothing wrong with a person wishing to be of service. This is our great gift to ourselves and the universe. While we are engaged in all sincerity in service, we are in harmony with the divine. When in harmony with the divine, we do extraordinary things while broadcasting spiritual love.
One does not have to define oneself as a disciple. There are other healthy, natural and rewarding relationships with teachers which can be beneficial and require no 'contracts' or formality. When we accept a teacher (or teaching ) to assist us, we are seeking to evolve through spiritual experiences and we are expected to take what we can and develop. We do not need to re-define ourselves according to the demands of a culture of guru-disciple or master-apprentice for we can feel quite comfortable with being seekers of the truth. Angels, demigods, sages, saintly persons, or other seekers of the truth accept us as their compatriot and assist us on occasion. This philosophical definition of what we are as a seeker is not only sufficient, it frees us from needless burdens when you do not wish to have them, allows us to always seek truth and not simply accept it even when our experience contradicts what we are told, and empowers our progress under any and all circumstances.
If someone demands you become their disciple before they will share with you their knowledge or experience, you can examine whether this is something you want to do or not. You might find this demand stifling, archaic, or bordering on potential exploitation, or you might find it comforting to have finally found shelter on a clearly defined island in a sea of uncertainty. Your decision depends on how you feel at the time. I do not see any absolute requirement either way; sometimes one way works better than the other, for our evolutionary needs lead us to what we must experience.
If I find something that resonates well with me, I accept it. If I find something that does not resonate well with me I try to understand it better. If I need to change and I see it is right to do so, I will consider it, but when I see no reason to integrate this understanding into my life I will not do so. I maintain my freedom to seek out the truth by doing what I feel is best for me at all times. This does not mean that I always do the 'best' or 'right' thing for there are often circumstances which force me to accept associations, actions, or even partnerships I might not wish to accept were I independent of all needs. As we are social beings with internal needs that must be addressed within an external environment, how we deal with the world around us has to accommodate the reality of our world.
Are you asking me to set up some rule or guideline for you? I don't wish to fulfill this request. I do not think there is an absolute or 'higher' requirement that a master-apprentice relationship is the sole or optimal means to attain realization, yet I have also stated that sometimes a person needs to be in such an environment for a variety of reasons of which we may or may not be aware. I was also in such an environment and evolved within it despite its limitations.
If someone were to judge your 'deviations' there would have to exist a standard that all must follow. If you believe that, then you naturally would want to follow that standard and not deviate and therefore there is no need to ask the questions you are asking. If you do not believe this idea then there is also no need to ask the question since the divine would not label your attempts to develop as deviations when there is no such standard. However, do not forget we have our own standards that we apply in our lives and often we do not tolerate our own deviations from them.
I will avoid dealing with your last sentence as it is filled with tar. There can be nothing wrong with a person wishing to be of service. This is our great gift to ourselves and the universe. While we are engaged in all sincerity in service, we are in harmony with the divine. When in harmony with the divine, we do extraordinary things while broadcasting spiritual love.
-
Siva-Ratri
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:32 pm
- Location: Almaty, Kazakhstan
- Contact:
There is so much wisdom in what you wrote. Would you say that there is some deficiancy, if I choosed the right world, in the way many understood in the past, me too, spiritual awareness and progress or elevation as something which would contradict somehow the way the society of people at large would live their lifes in this world, declaring them as living a life in `maya`, if something like this would indeed exist or is rather something we are not so consciously aware of like some higher beings surely are? I guess what i would like to say is the following. Is it not so that everything one may experience in this world and the society of people one may find oneself in temporarily is something one may have to go through in order to elevate oneself spiritually moore and thus everything what hapens to oneself, or the situations one may find oneself in temporarily, could have also a deeper and somehow beneficial meaning for every individual person of us, although one may not always be consciously aware of this?Hari wrote:I maintain my freedom to seek out the truth by doing what I feel is best for me at all times. This does not mean that I always do the 'best' or 'right' thing for there are often circumstances which force me to accept associations, actions, or even partnerships I might not wish to accept were I independent of all needs. As we are social beings with internal needs that must be addressed within an external environment, how we deal with the world around us has to accommodate the reality of our world.